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Purchase advice - Puffer, Sunfish or other?

  • Thread starter Bkmama
  • Start date May 26, 2020
  • Brand-Specific Forums

Hope everyone is well during these crazy times. I’m looking for an activity I can do with my 9 year old this summer and am thrilled by the idea of teaching him how to sail. He’s been on bigger boats a little, but not a day sailer. I’d like to buy something used I can strap on my car, so under 120lbs, 4’W, 14’L. I’m seeing Sunfish, a Dyer Dhow Midget, Puffer, sailfish, Laser & a Zuma all listed for under $1k, which is a lot less than cancelled summer camp. As stand-in counselor and bunk mates, I’m thinking that although the Zuma or Laser will be way more fun to sail, the Dyer & Puffer can maybe hold an extra non-sailor parent and double as a fishing boat for variety. But, I’m concerned that I might be too out of shape and my son too small to right one of those, but I know I’ll have no problem with a tipped sunfish or a laser. If anyone has advice on our purchase decision, I’m sure I haven’t thought it all through and would love to benefit from your expertise.  

Rick Webb

Can't go wrong with a Sunfish. Lasers are great too but tippy for a novice.  

Any thoughts on the Minifish? One just popped up for $600. Together we're under 220lbs, but I suppose there's not enough room to teach him on the minifish?  

shemandr

The last time I tried to saii a sailfish I couldn't stay on it. While ducking the boom on tacks I would just slide right off it. And it was heavy. Not really "Car top." Sunfish at least has the well you can get your ankles to hold onto. But still the deck sweeper boom. I donated my sailfish to a local sailing club. Laser is a real boat. We had a regatta here a few months ago with around 80 entrants who were "Masters.' All were adults and not all in great shape. So that's a bow you can sail basically for life. But it's a boat for a single sailor. Dyer Dhows are a good platform too. They are easily handled. But, it's a little small for two and a bit too heavy to use as a tender. Puffer looks pretty good but I can't recall ever seeing one on the water. I don't know the minifish. JY 14 are fun to sail and can work for two people but I don't think you could call them "Car top." There must be a million Vanguard 420's around. They're good for two people, fun to sail - and even have a spinnaker. In areas with active fleets you can probably find rentals. And don't forget Optimists. They're really much more boat than they look like. You can put air floatation in them so they are real safe. You could probably put it on a car top but most move them with trailers - like eight at a time. There's a reason juniors programs use them.  

Justin_NSA

If you think you are too out of shape to right a small boat, then mounting and dismounting one from a car top will be a big PITA. Factor in a trailer or sailing will be a chore. They are easy to pull.  

I sailed a Laser last summer with no problem & I plan to drop the boat on a harbor front lawn and leave it there for the summer. I hadn’t thought about a Sunfish being more uncomfortable than a Laser.  

Hunter216

Time with your kid, outside, providing him an opportunity to learn a new sport. Good on you!! My 2 cents FWIW. From my experience 9 yr old kids learn things quickly, then want independence to do it themselves. Will you feel comfortable standing on the shore watching them on their first solos? Make part of your “teaching” having the child right the boat themselves. If you don’t see yourself being comfortable with the solo steps perhaps you should also consider having a second boat available. The alternative is a small trailerable boat that you both sail for a few years.  

Thank you. This is great advice and yes, I'll be thrilled to stand on shore and watch my son sail away for awhile! These are very strange times, especially if you want to visit the grandparents at some point. Remote schooling for us has meant only seeing friends on screens. I can only play catch so much... sailing is a wonderfully independent sport. As for instruction, how do you teach on shore? I learned by the watch one, do one method. First on a Hobie 16 from my Dad and then FJs from instructors. I would have had trouble righting either of those on my own as a novice 9 year old, especially in one that might have some water weight. I looked up some sailing camp videos and saw instructors on motor boats lifting the top of a Dyer Dhow mast. Maybe I could assist on a kayak or SUP? I was hoping to avoid putting a hitch on our leased car, but this chorus is convincing me it's the right way to go.  

Thank you! We have a kayak, so I'm hoping we'll be all set. I'll probably go for a classic sunfish and hope to post a pic in July. You all have been very helpful.  

David in Sandusky

David in Sandusky

I’ve raced both the Sunfish and the Laser, and sailed both to teach kids/grandkids. I’d go for the Sunfish in a minute.  

Project_Mayhem

The local park district had a sail camp when I was a kid. They had Zumas, Sunfish, Puffer, Barnett 1400 and 420's. From what I vaguely remember the Zumas were rather tippy. Sunfish was very easy to sail but I got bored of them very quickly because there was no challenge. They had more 1400's than any other boat. They're well built and easy to sail. I got bored of those well but not as quickly. The Puffer was a good boat for instructing because they held a small group of kids. It also had a jib. My favorite was the 420. It was big, fast and I never got bored. I put that poor boat through hell... Capsized more times than I can remember, beached it nearly everyday, loaded it up with five teenagers, sunk it, sailed it while only the bow was above water, heck I even sailed it while I was in the water holding onto the transom. I still dream of buying another one but I have way too many toys that require maintenance The 420 and probably the puffer would be difficult car toppers. The others should be ok but still difficult with one person. I had no issues righting any of those boats as a kid. We did capsizing drills everyday. Looking back now I believe those drills were an amazing way to get over any fear that a potential sailor might have. Water wont hurt you but a boom might!  

Why on earth would anyone attempt to put a Sunfish or a 420 on the roof of their car? That's why they invented trailers...  

Not everyone has the space for a trailer... and even fewer know how to properly tow  

Daveinet

IF you convince yourself to tow, get a Hobie 14. That will provide the excitement necessary to keep a young kid interested. Also the chances of flipping it are not real high unless you are trying to fly a hull. If your thinking of a Sunfish, also consider a Phantom. The Phantom is slightly larger/wider and accommodates 2 people easier because of the higher freeboard. It is also lighter and has slightly more sail area.  

Seems to me if you have room for a boat, you have room for a trailer. Whatever, I just want to see the video of somebody single handing a 200 lb sailboat onto their car roof...  

BKmama, I'd really like to know what you get. I wish I had a small craft for those hot summer days. Storage is my problem.  

RussC

One of my first boats was a Puffer. great little sailboat that will teach you a lot about sailing. very easy to right if you knock it down but you have to make pretty large mistakes to do that. actually our most enjoyable boat, early on, was a Capri 14.2. those are big enough to give some small degree of comfort but are still very easy to right if need be. the only time I ever needed to right ours was when I intentionally put the mast in the water. very fun little boats.  

Mr. Dave said: Seems to me if you have room for a boat, you have room for a trailer. Whatever, I just want to see the video of somebody single handing a 200 lb sailboat onto their car roof... Click to expand
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Research 2012 - Vanguard Sailboats - Zuma

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Vanguard Sailboats
Zuma
2012
12 ft. 9 in.
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Practical Sailor Reviews Seven Performance-Sailing Dinghies

Agile, fun boats like the classic sunfish and new hobie bravo keep the smile in summer sailing..

vanguard zuma sailboat review

Photos by Ralph Naranjo

Messing around in small boats is a global theme-one thats embraced by pond-bound pram sailors, river riders, lake voyagers, and all of us who call salt water home. The purpose of this sailing dinghy profile is to highlight seven very interesting little sailboats. Some are new designs, and others have stood the test of time, but all are currently being manufactured, and each drives home just how much fun sailing close to the water can be.

This isn’t a shootout among anorexic speedsters or a report on the best tender that doubles as a sailing dinghy. Its a look at perennials like the Optimist, Sunfish, and Laser-legendary competitors that have helped spawn some of the best sailors in the world. But its also a look at three of the newest entries in the dinghy-sailing circle: Bics Open, Hobies Bravo, and Laser Performances Bug. These agile, new sailing dinghies are chock full of fun and boat-handling features to inspire kids of all ages to go sailing.

Well also take a look at Chesapeake Light Crafts kit approach to getting started-one that offers meaningful lessons and tangible rewards well before the boat ever hits the water.

Scale down an Open 60, add sail technology long favored by windsurfers, and put it into play in a tough thermo-formed hull, and you have the makings for a new kind of watercraft. The result is a very interesting blend of performance and reliability that targets adolescent interest. When all is said and done, Bics boat is more akin to a sit-down windsurfer than a traditional Blue Jay. And like all good boats, its vying for attention not just based on performance, construction quality, and style, but just as importantly, on the price tag stuck to the hull.

The Open Bics light weight and wide, flat stern section means that even small chop can be surfed; and bursts of planing on a reach add a zing factor to dinghy sailing. The Open Bic is already an International Sailing Federation (ISAF)-sanctioned class, and fleets are developing around the US. Another bonus: Its an easily portable boat that can be carried like a windsurfer, adding excitement to a Sunday picnic at the beach.

The thermo-formed polyethylene hull is a modified hard-chine design with lots of beam aft. Sailed flat, the boat is agile enough to surf wavelets, and with a shape thats ergonomically friendly to hiking, the ensuing heel on the upwind leg puts just the right amount of chine into the water. In light air, careful control of heel can significantly reduce wetted surface.

The design team that developed the Open Bic saw it as a transition bridge from Optimist sailing to a more performance-oriented dinghy. An interesting innovation is that the Open Bic can be sailed with an Optimists rig and blades. This buy the hull only approach can be a significant incentive for parents with children outgrowing their Opti as fast as their boat shoes. However it wont be long before the kids want the fully turbo-charged feel delivered with the Open Bics well-shaped 4.5-square-meters rig, sail, and nicely foiled blades.

Bottom line: The Open Bic is fast, agile, and buckets of fun for kids uninspired by sailing in the slow lane.

Just when you think that Hobie Cat Co. has covered whats possible in beach-cat innovation, their design/engineering crew comes up with a new twist that reinvents the wheel. The Hobie Bravo is a good case in point.

In a recent visit to Backyard Boats ( www.backyardboats.com ) in Annapolis, Md., we got a good look at the Bravo. Nearly as narrow as a monohull but still quite stable, this quick-to-launch beach cat packs plenty of get-up-and-go. Its a simple to sail, entry-level boat that fast tracks learning the steer, sheet, and hike trilogy. The boat features a single, midline rudder and roto-molded hulls. The shape of the hulls provides enough lateral plane to allow a crew to make headway to windward.

The narrow (4 feet), 12-foot Bravo uses crew weight and hiking straps to add to the righting moment once the breeze is up. Whats done with webbing on larger cats has been converted to a shallow, rigid deck well on the Bravo. It does raise the weight of the boat to 195 pounds, but it offers comfortable seating plus room for cushions and a cooler. Kids or grown ups can have a Tom Sawyer-Huck Finn type of adventure aboard this fun little sailing machine. Or the family on a beach picnic can set it up and take turns speed reaching along a sandy shoreline.

The furling mast supports a roachy sail with slightly slanted vertical battens, helping to shape the boomless mainsail. The result is convenient sail handling, decent performance, and superior safety. Theres no boom to clobber the crew, and the roller-furled sail and mast are easily stepped in the tripod-like receiver. This interesting set of struts raises the top bearing point of the mast step and spreads rig loads out to the hulls. The furling mainsail offers the ability to reef, a big plus in a building breeze or when teaching children to sail.

Like all of the boats in the Hobie lineup, theres a wide range of specialty parts and fittings that make the boats fast to rig and easy to handle. The kick-up rudder is hung on gudgeons mounted in the center of stern, and just as rig loads have been effectively spread via the tripod step, the energy radiating from the large rudder is spread athwartships via a contoured deck element.

Bottom line: The boat is quick to rig, easy to launch, and responsive to beginners-more experienced sailors will have just as much fun power reaching when the breeze is up.

The Bug

A pocket-sized club trainer, the Bug is an evolution of the kids trainer/club racer that leverages lessons learned in Optis, Dyers, and Sabots. It pulls together the logic of a stable hull shape and simple-to-sail rig, and puts it all in a cost-effective package.

Lending to its success is designer Jo Richardss ergonomic, roto-molded hull, a fabrication that is as close to zero maintenance as a boat can get. The straight out-of-the-mold polyethylene skin gets a few decals, and theres no wood to refinish or gelcoat to wax. These tough, abrasion-resistant hulls have a bumper boat tolerance thats a big plus when it comes to kids learning to sail. Best of all, owners can start with a learn-to-sail rig and upgrade to a more performance-oriented mast and sail package (41 or 56 square feet) that kicks performance into the fast lane.

Oars and an outboard motor bracket can be added to turn the little sailboat into a dual-purpose dinghy. Even the bow painters means of attachment makes sense-no projecting hardware ready to knick the topsides of unintended contacts. Instead, theres a recessed hole in the stem allowing a line to be lead through and a knot used to keep the painter in place.

Bottom line: Aimed at club programs and families look for boats that can be transported on the car top, the Bug is easy to rig and definitely kid friendly. The fact that its manufacturer, Laser Performance, is an international interest and a major player in the performance dinghy industry means that this boat and its parts will be around for a while.

Hobie Bravo

Photo courtesy of Hobie Cat Co.

Eastport Pram

Chesapeake Light Craft expedites boatbuilding for do-it-yourselfers looking to take their garage-built boats for a sail. The company pre-cuts parts, packs kits with all the materials, epoxy, and paint youll need, and leads homebuilders through a thoroughly detailed stitch-and-glue approach to assembly. Kits are available in various stages of completeness, ranging from plans only to the full package, including sail, hardware, running rigging, and paint.

The Eastport Pram is just shy of 8 feet, and the marine plywood and epoxy construction delivers a boat that weighs in, sans sailing rig, at just 62 pounds. Lighter than the comparatively sized Bug, this stiff, durable dinghy, rows like a real boat and sails comfortably with one or two aboard. In keeping with other good tender attributes, the Pram behaves under tow and is equally amicable when propelled by a small outboard or tacked up an estuary under sail.

Kit boatbuilding continues to have a niche following. Theres also an added-value feature worth noting: On one hand, the builder receives a box of pieces and the result of his or her endeavor leads to an aesthetic and utilitarian dinghy. In addition, the DIY skills the builder develops will be useful in other epoxy bonding, brightwork, or mono-urethane application projects. Such talents will benefit many other boat maintenance endeavors.

Whats hard to quantify is the sense of accomplishment derived from sailing a boat that you have built yourself. When the project is tackled in tandem with a child, spouse, or friend, the memories and the boat will last.

Bottom line: With neither sidedecks or a sealed hull, this is not a boat thats easy to recover from a capsize. So once the kids favor on-the-edge sailing in a building breeze, a non swamping, easier-righting boat is probably a better option. The Pram can then be put to use by their appreciative parents or grandparents.

Never in their wildest dreams did Bruce Kirby and Ian Bruce imagine that the Weekender (the Lasers original name) was destined to become an Olympic class sailboat and one of the most popular springboards for top-tier sailors in the world today. Originally envisioned as a car-topper for weekend campers, the cat-rigged, low freeboard sailing dinghy morphed from its original roots into a boat favored by college competitors and revered by generations of agile sailors of all ages. Even frostbiting winter sailors have locked onto the Laser.

Chesapeake Light Craft

Designed in 1969, the Lasers first few years were anything but smooth sailing. Popularity grew quickly, but along with the limelight came plenty of consternation. Dubbed a surfboard not a sailboat by a growing cross-section of the yachting elite-many parents warned junior sailors to steer as clear of Lasers as they did sex, drugs and rock-n-roll. The campaign failed, and junior sailors in yacht club programs around the country fell into the grip of the new one-design dinghy-discovering the sailboats proclivity to plane.

one-design Laser

Dyer Dhows languished in boat sheds across the country as a new theme in sailing took hold. Dubbed fast is fun by sailor/engineer Bill Lee, the young Merlin of Santa Cruz, Calif., took the theme to big-boat sailing, merging California culture with the Laser logic of light displacement and planing hull shapes.

Best of all, the Laser embraced the ideal of a tightly controlled one-design class that put people on the water in identical boats and left winning and losing races up to sailing skill and tactics rather than a boats performance edge. For decades, the boat has been the single-handed sailors choice among junior sailing programs, and with the addition of the Radial, 4.7 and M rigs, smaller competitors have also found the boat to be a great sailing platform. Today, theres some lawyer saber-rattling over the sale of the design rights, but the boat remains more popular than ever.

The sleeved sail, two-part spar, daggerboard, and kick-up rudder make the boat a quick-to-rig and fast-to-get underway dinghy. Light-air efficiency is good for a one-design sailboat, but this means that as the breeze builds, the non-reefable sail can become a handful in a hurry. In fact, the boats Dr. Jekyll-and-Mr. Hyde demeanor is what builds talent among Laser practitioners. The big boys block the mainsail and blast off for the layline, while lighter sailors heavy-weather tactics include more nuanced de-powering and feathering. In light air, the tables turn, and the winner is often the sailor who planes quickest on the reaches. The old guards surfboard slam may have held some credence after all.

Bottom line: The Laser is a timeless classic thats easily transported and is built for performance. Its well suited to adrenaline-seeking teens as well as the more fit adult crowd.

Designed in 1947 by Floridian Clark Mills, the utilitarian Optimist could be made out of two sheets of plywood-and from its inception, the Optimist was meant to link kids with the water. Slipping into obscurity in the U.S., the little pram found fertile ground to grow in northern Europe. With just a few tweaks, the Scandinavians took Millss lines and parlayed them into whats become the favored junior sailing trainer for kids from Detroit to Timbuktu. Statistics show that there are about 30 builders worldwide putting out approximately 4,000 boats each year. With about 130,000 boats class registered and an estimated 300,000 total hulls built (amateur and pro), theres plenty of reasons to get excited about an Opti.

Performance boats

The example weve chosen is the USA-built McLaughlin boat, both a demonstration of high-quality FRP construction and modern manufacturing techniques. Its also a boat that can be purchased in a range of performance-inducing iterations-upgrades designated as club, intermediate, advanced, and professional versions. Like all performance sailboats, stiffness and strength-to-weight ratio is important. But class rules include a minimum weight, so the most competitive hulls meet the mandatory lower limit but use good engineering and building technique to reinforce the daggerboard slot and mast step and produce overall stiffness.

Sunfish

The low mast height and high aspect ratio sprit sail is very versatile, affording young (and small, 65 to 130 pounds) sailors a wide window of decent performance. The flat bottom, slab-sided hull is responsive to crew weight-driven trim changes, and the better the sailor, the more agile they become. Light-air performance is all about minimizing wetted surface and maximizing sail area projection. When the breeze starts to kick up, the sailor becomes the ballast, and the art of hiking, sheet handling, and tiller wiggling come into play.

Under careful adult supervision, two 6- to 8-year-olds can double-hand the friendly little dinghy, or one more-confident child can solo sail it. In fact, introducing kids to sailing with similar proportioned small prams has been a right of passage around for decades. A set of oarlock gudgeons can turn the pram into a functional dinghy thats also adaptable to the smaller Torqeedo outboard (www.torqeedo.com).

McLaughlin also markets a Roto-molded polyethylene version of the Opti and sells DIY kits for those who want to create their own wood version.

Bottom line: The Opti is like a first bicycle without the need for training wheels. The fact that at the last Olympics, over 80 percent of the winning sailors had gotten their start in an Optimist speaks well to the value of messing around in this particular dinghy.

Open Bic

Designed in 1951 by ice boaters Alexander Bryan and Cortland Heyniger, the hard chine Sunfish was the prototype board boat. In 1959, it made the transition into fiberglass, and over the following half-century, more than a quarter-million hulls would hit the water. Simplicity and decent sailing attributes combined with an attractive price to make the Sunfish the most popular one-design dinghy ever raced.

Far more than a platform for racers, these boats are an excellent training tool for sailors of all ages. Also built by Laser Performance, they reflect the fun of summer and put sailors in close contact with the water on which they sail. Its no surprise that the larger fleets coincide with warm water and many see going for a swim to be part and parcel of the low-freeboard experience.

The lateen rig is in keeping with the overall design concept and simplifies rigging. A short stub of a mast is stepped and a single halyard hoists the sail along with tilting V-shaped upper and lower booms.

The total sail area is nearly the same as the Laser, but the halyard hoist versatility of the lateen rig make it a handy beach boat and a little less daunting when the wind begins to build. The clean sail shape on one tack and deformation caused by the mast on the other tack are a slight drawback. The Laser rig is more efficient, but when caught out in a squall, its nice to be able to ease the halyard and dump the sail. Its also handy to be able to leave the boat tethered to a mooring, and the doused sail and short mast make it possible.

Multiple generations of sailors are often found sailing Sunfish, and the boat represents one of the best bargains to be found in the used boat market. When considering a pre owned boat, the potential buyer needs to take a close look at the daggerboard-to-hull junction and mast step, points where previous damage can create hard-to-fix leaks.

Bottom line: The Sunfish is a great beach boat that can turn a hot afternoon into a fun-filled water experience.

There were no losers in this group, and picking winners and runners-up proved a difficult task. The outcome had to be based on assumptions about how these boats would be used. For example, parents with a competitive 9-year-old who swims like a fish, always sprints for the head of the lunch line, and likes to steal bases in Little League probably have an Opti racer in the making. Less competitive junior sailors-future cruisers in the making-will do better learning aboard a Bug. Many newly formed sailing clubs target the boat as their trainer of choice.

The Bravo holds plenty of appeal for those with a lakeside cottage or a favored campground destination. Whether its a solo sail just before sunset or a fun race on Sunday, the quick to set up and put away features are a plus, and for those who feel that two hulls are better-the Bravo will hold plenty of appeal.

Serious competitors can campaign a Laser for life, and whether youre headed for a local district regatta or getting ready for the Olympic trials, the hull, rig, and sail remains identical-sort of like the Monaco Grand Prix being raced in a street legal Mustang.

Bic Opens new little speedster tickled our fancy, and as a trainer/performance boat crossover, it drew a strong nod of approval. Watching the junior sailors smiles as they sailed their Open Bics endorsed our opinion.

And if there is any boat that defines the essence of summer, the Sunfish takes the prize.

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  • Page 1 Vanguard Sailboats 300 Highpoint Avenue Portsmouth, RI 02871 For the dealer nearest you call 800.966. SAIL...
  • Page 2 4. Block package which includes: Mainsheet block Double traveler block Vang block with vcleat Small vang block with becket Shackle To rig your Zuma the first time, you will need the following: Knife White electrical tape 2 adjustable wrenches and/or pliers...
  • Page 3 The vang system consists of two blocks and a line. The block with a shackle attaches to the eyestrap on the underside of the boom. The block with a v groove cleat and shackle attaches to the eye- strap on the mast. Lay out the block w/ shackle to the right of the block with vcleat, leaving about two feet between the two.
  • Page 4 Insert the collared end of the mast top section into the bottom section until the collar is tight against the aluminum. Make sure the mast step hole and mast butt are perfectly clean; any sand, dirt etc. in the mast step will grind into the gelcoat and eventual- ly damage the boat.
  • Page 5 Tie a figure eight knot in one end of the cunningham and thread the other end forward through the clam cleat and fairlead just aft FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY, MAKE SURE of the mast. Thread the end up through the grommet in the sail YOU ARE WEARING APPROPRIATE and secure it to the gooseneck.

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Elegy for the Vanguard 15: Good Things Do End, But That’s Okay…

July 25, 2014 by Sail1Design Editor 10 Comments

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Reader Interactions

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July 25, 2014 at 22:49

I doubt the zim 15 will catch on with it’s $11,000 price tag (they haven’t announced that part yet)

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July 26, 2014 at 07:29

Only a fool our a scoundrel would burry his loved ones alive. I foresee the rise of a new more wild V-15 (wv-15), as well as many more years of racing, cruising and fishing ahead.

July 27, 2014 at 12:22

Rhetoric aside, Stork’s very well written piece brings up an important problem in sailing, one that the v15’s rag-tag culture addressed if only a little bit and only for a short while. Sailing has always been a sport for the have-a-lots and what was most refreshing about sailing in the vanguards was that a have-a-little could be competitive in the fleet without sinking a ton of money into the boat. (of course we have to acknowledge that the boat did little to help a have-nothing get into the sport). John aptly terms the vanguard class the “low rent district of sailing,” and what disturbs me about the idea the vanguard culture might be squeezed out – gentrified by carbon replacements and the teak halls of exclusive yacht clubs. I think there is life left in the vanguard but most of all I hope this eulogy sparks a discussion about how to keep the “low rent district” open for sailing!

July 26, 2014 at 18:26

The vanguard class is still the best option for anyone looking to team race or participate in college-style fleet racing. Used boats can be found for very cheap and remain competitive for many years. One problem is the lack of regattas available to sail. Another may be the trend toward college age sailors looking to get internships and recent graduates taking corporate jobs in cities where they can no longer race. I think the vanguard class remains a great option. This summer, it seems that the regattas that were going to happen were not publicized very well. Social media seems to be the best way to get the word out and get people racing. With the right leadership promoting regattas and encouraging participation, the V15 class could definitely make a strong comeback next year.

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July 26, 2014 at 20:39

Well if the class website and Facebook(Vanguard 15 Class Association) aren’t enough then what would you like? Is the key to saving the class Instagram or Snap Chat?

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July 27, 2014 at 21:58

Good article John, I loved the v-15 for the fun sailing, great social scene, and great class support from the builder. Vanguard did a great job to build the class and supported it to a tremendous positive outcome through partnerships with local events (chip johns at bbr), us sailing, and isaf to provide boats at hinman and team race worlds. Ultimately, v-15s came down to hiking fitness to do well upwind on long course racing. I think there is a great niche that no boat builder has filled yet. A v-15 style hull with trap for the crew and smallish asym chute designed for a combined crew weight of 290lbs would be a great draw to many. It would appeal to collegiate and post-college kids, bring speed and fun back to sailing without pure hiking fitness, get the crew out of the middle of the boat DW and get everyone used to sailing DW angles to ease the transition to sport boats post college. A v-15 retro fit would be even cooler though the load on the deck step mast woulda be a problem. This is my hope for the future of college sailing but I think a design like this could really take off. I was surprised the zim15 didn’t have a asym chute at least, trap would be even cooler. Still great to see v-15s getting sailed at the local level in things like the marblehead Wednesday night team racing league and Rhode Island team race assoc Tuesdays.

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July 30, 2014 at 15:05

Great article by John. I too will never forget all the ridiculous V15 events I’ve been to over the last 7 years. It was a truly special time for “low rent” sailing. Something interesting happened about 5 years ago(maybe before that) when the “exclusive” yacht clubs starting offering cheap “sailing” memberships to people under 30 or 35. All of the sudden the V15 was no longer the cheapest way to do high quality sailing, specifically team racing. You can now pay under $500 a year and sail 6-7 very competitive keelboat team races for whatever club you are a member of and they cover all the entry fees. NYYC Silver Panda paved the way bringing some of this to the V15 circuit where the club covered some entry fees and travel to world events. The point is that there is now a cheaper option then owning a boat so young people have chosen to do that instead. Yes, its kind of a bummer that you have to be subject to membership at an “exclusive” club but now these clubs are a lot less exclusive. What’s sad is that dinghy team racing has taken a hit. The bright side is that we will see the re emergence of provided boat dinghy team racing. The 1st annual free state team race in Annapolis, MD has wildly successful. In the coming years we will see more of these Charles River Team Race style events. Colleges now own a boat that is actually fun to sail for graduates, the z420 so its easier to get people excited to go and sail at those venues. Regardless, the free state team race was in regular old club 420s proving that its not about the boat but the accessibility. The Zim 15 was not intended to replace the V15 with individual boat ownership. It’s mainly meant for yacht clubs and sailing centers who already purchase fleets of boats. Its become standard for the big yacht clubs to buy fleets of small keelboats and Zim is hoping this trend will ketch on with dinghys as well. Im not sure if they’ll succeed but I hope they do.

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July 31, 2014 at 15:46

Please read Mike O’Connor’s thoughtful response to this article, printed here: https://www.sail1design.com/vanguard-15-elegy-rebuttal-aint-dead-yet/

' src=

August 5, 2014 at 11:37

As someone who’s run a variety of V15 & team racing events and has witnessed the generational transition first-hand, here are my thoughts. I don’t know the exact answer, but the result is some mix of the following: 1. Somehow the urgency of needing to be at these events for social and competition reasons has faded. In the height of the scene, you had to be there or you were getting worse compared to your competitors, and you were missing out on a lot of fun. Missing out sucks. 2. Not sure why, but it seems planning and coordinating is not at the top of the priority list for the current generation. Example, I remember people having summer weekend plans made by early June and talking to potential summer team mates in the spring college sailing season. Taking a summer job was contingent on being able to travel to and sail these events. After graduating, our team did the same, but planned even earlier, during the winter. As mentioned by others, this planning concept didn’t apply to things like where to stay and remembering to buy lunch…but I wasn’t going to miss a regatta. 3. The builder has effectively applied negative support by stopping supply of boats and even basic parts like sails, not to mention the proactive stuff like running regattas and generally being out there and supporting the scene. This sends a clear signal – whether intentional or not – to users and stymies the market. 4. Where are the motivated 20-somethings that need to step up and put forth their contribution to sustaining the sport? Each successful event had one person behind it who took the reigns and did what was needed to make it happen. “If you build it, they will come,” applied directly to this class and it’s events. But those people won’t do it forever, so now, who is “you?” The V15 is a great boat, I re-realize that every time I see it being sailed; it is not the reason for its own demise. Both High School and College Sailing are growing, and team racing is growing in those areas plus in every other age bracket. I assume kids still want to have fun? Despite lack of new boats, used boats are affordable and last. The logistics aren’t that hard. All the elements are there! Again, I don’t know the exact answer for how to turn things around, but looking backwards for it probably isn’t going to work. One thought – for better or worse, the model of supplied boats seems to be quickly gaining popularity. Plain and simple, it’s easier to participate when you don’t have to deal with a boat. Just show up and sail. Pay a higher entry fee, but don’t pay for a boat. I’ll use myself as an example: I’ll do 10+ team race events this year and won’t bring anything but myself to one of them. The idea of there being regional “centers” (whether it be a school, community program or yacht club) that host events in their own equipment is not that far away, if not already existing. Perhaps sailing centers should think about how they structure their fleets and programs; builders should think about who their customers should be; and motivated organizers should think about what the current generation really wants in an event.

[…] By guest writer Mike O’Connor. This article is in response to our recent post: Elegy For the V15; Good Things End, But That’s OK […]

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Should I buy a Force 5?

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SailNet Pals: I just joined your community, and it looks like a great resource. Here is my current situation for which I would love some advice: I currently own a 1982 Sailnetics FJ. This boat is a nice boat, but it is not very convenient. Amazingly enough, it requires two to step the mast. I can get the mast into the position, but cannot attach the shrouds and forestay by myself. It is a long story, but suffice it to say, I can't do it myself. Also, the boat is not comfortable for the passenger because of the seat design and line placements. My wife is not comfortable in the boat, and is not that crazy about being in a tippy boat. So, I'm thinking of selling it and getting something a bit smaller that I can handle myself easily, but could occasionally take a passenger. There is a Force 5 for sale here locally that might be nice. I have read some reviews, and it is hard to tell if this boat is easy to rig and sail. I don't plan to race it. I might occasionally want to take a passenger such as a child, or possibly another adult who doesn't mind getting wet. Is this boat a good choice?  

vanguard zuma sailboat review

My son has one and it's a great little boat (the price was right) It's easy to rig and the cockpit is large enough for two people. He thoroughly enjoys sailing it  

vanguard zuma sailboat review

The Force 5 was introduced by AMF/Alcort in response to the Laser. Very similar to the laser and very fun. Certainly a good boat to have. I liked the mid-boom sheeting on the Force 5, which seems better to me than the arrangement on the Laser. I think the Force 5 is just a bit slower than the Laser, but still plenty fast. You would have a much harder time trying to find any one-design racing on a Force 5. But overall, Sure a great boat! David  

OK, it sounds like this is a good boat. Is it fairly easy to slip the sail over such a long mast? Also, there will be times when I want to leave the boat at a dock or mooring for a few days. Since the boat has no main halyard set up, what do you do with the sail? Can it be furled around the main and tied? Or do I have to take it down each time?  

The sail slips on the mast easily on land (meaning you, not necessarily the boat) It would be pretty tough/impossible to do that if you were standing on the boat while it was floating at a mooring! So, yes, if you are planning on keeping the boat on a mooring, you'd have to take the mast, boom, and sail off first. Really, though, that size of boat is best kept ashore. Don't be shy if you have more questions... David  

Interesting. OK, I am a 48 year old 170 pound guy. Could I get a kid, or another adult in this boat on occasion if I want to? From the pictures of the hull it looks like there is room in front of the thwart seat for another person. I just wonder if it would be comfortable in that spot?  

Good question.. Sorry I was too lazy to bring it up myself.. At 175 lbs, you are the perfect weight for the boat solo. I have had Lasers out in lots of wind, with a crew member that size, and myself at around 150. No problem as long as you are able to move fast during tacking, etc. I used to sail Lasers with my Dad, who weighed about 160, and myself at 80 - 100 lbs. No problem, as long as you position yourself carefully/quickly. So, in summary, no, two people on a Laser/Force 5 isn't a problem, as long as everyone likes each other and can move quickly. If you're looking for a boat to take more than one other person, or someone who is badly out of shape, then you are looking at the wrong boat. You will learn amazingly fast on the Force 5, as long as you don't mind getting wet! David  

I have heard the Force 5 described as "A Laser for grownups". I keep my boat at the yard that is now the manufacturer for the Force 5. See WEEKS YACHT YARD.COM . I can testify that they do good and conscientious work.  

This is very useful advice. I am at cross purposes since the main problem with my current boat is I can't easily single hand it for a variety of reasons. Now, I could get a bigger boat that I can handle myself, such as a Lido 14, or a Catalina 16.5, but part of my problem is finding somebody in my family who wants to sail. So the thought of having a smaller boat that I can handle myself on a moments notice is the idea, but with the possibility of bringing another sailor along occasionally. So, this boat could be the ticket. I haven't seen the one locally here for sale, and won't be able to see it until tomorrow, so this could all be moot if the boat is too much of a project. I don't mind replacing rigging and blocks etc. myself, but if the hull has problems, or the trailer is a mess, then that could be the deal breaker.  

I agree with your thinking.. I have sailed Lido 14s.. Nice boats! But, certainly you could singlehand it. The Force 5 would meet your needs a bit better, I think, if you are primarily going to singlehand it, the Force 5 (or a Laser, for that manner, as they are essentially equivalents, except for the reasons noted above) Will be lots more fun. The boat is probably not a good buy if it has any major problems, as you said. Remember that you are paying "new" prices for anything you have to replace! David  

Well, if the basics of the boat are good, I don't mind replacing lines and blocks as needed. But if the hull has problems, I don't know how to do fiberglass work at all.  

Yep... I'll bet your lines and blocks are fine. On a Laser, a typical hull problem was leaking at the daggerboard trunk. Don't know about the Force 5...  

What I read about the Force 5 is that the older ones leak at the autobailer spot. There is a double hull there, and for some reason they were not sealed that well in the hull with epoxy. The Force 5 website has a whole article on how to fix it yourself which doesn't look that bad. We'll see how this boat looks. Part of my problem isn't just the boat. I tend to trailer fairly far at times, and I want a decent trailer. I am willing to do some work to the trailer, such as rewire it and repack the bearings, but if the trailer is otherwise a mess, that can be a problem. New trailers are darn expensive.  

I've had three Lasers, and cartopped two of them. A pain, but you can do it.  

vanguard zuma sailboat review

dndrich said: Yeah, but I really want to avoid that. I plan to single hand it, and lifting a 145 pound boat onto the top of my Honda just won't work for me! So, a trailer is a must. Doesn't have to be pretty, but solid. Click to expand...

I owned and raced a Force Five for many years. I won't repeat much of what others have commented upon as it is mostly accurate. I thought the boat was great but want to mention a couple of additional points. First, the boat is definetely slower than a Laser notwithstanding the larger sail plan of the Force Five. Second, the larger sail plan made the Force Five a bit to handle for a lightweight like myself in a breeze (I'm about 155 lbs). Of course, in a breeze, someone my weight also struggles with a Laser. Third, and related to the second point, putting the mast up in a breeze by yourself can be somewhat of a struggle. Mike s/v Liberty Tartan 34C  

Very useful information. How would you say this boat compares to say, a Zuma or a Hobie Holder 12? Or a Pico? The only thing I don't like about the boats that use a sleeve sail is that it is sure nice to raise a mast, and then raise the sail with a halyard. Also makes it possible to drop the sail while still in the water, such as at a dock or mooring.  

Yep.. The sleeve type sail is a pain... Simple and efficient, but not a s easy to raise/lower.  

last year i had a laser pico which i loved that sounds like would fit your needs perfectly. it is a simple boat that is easily singlehanded with just the main or the main and jib. its slow and the jib doesnt help much, but the second person will feel useful, while having fun. it also has a plastic hull that is indistructable. good luck. -kai  

The Laser Pico or Vanguard Zuma would truly meet my needs. Trouble is, I never see one of these for sale used in my area. So I would have to buy a new one. The Pico would be about $4000 with a trailer, and the Zuma would be closer to $5000 with a trailer. Now, I would have a hard time getting that one past the wife for my toy! But those boats would truly fit the bill for me I think. The Force 5 is available, and I would consider it because if it would work, it is much less money since it is used.  

have you checked craigslist? pico's are rare but zumas are fairly common. they are also not very expensive for a very nice one. ive seen some barely used zumas go for $1000. -kai  

I live in Sebastopol, near San Francisco. I check craigslist every day. I have never seen a zuma for sale here once! Bummer.  

Well if you just moved to MA you would beable to find one. think about it. haha.  

Force 5 OK, I looked at the boat today at the only local sailboat shop here in Sonoma County. The owners are very nice. The boat has been sitting there for years, and shows it. They want $1500 for it with a beat up trailer. The boat will need some work, but not a ton. I will have to take the wood work off and clean and oil. I will have to buff and polish the hull and deck as it is heavily oxidized. The running rigging is in good shape with nice Harken hardware. I will have to take the lines off and soak in Woolite. The tanks were full of water. I suspect the auto bailer, which is apparently a problem in these boats. That should be a reasonably easy fix. He has to find the sail and blades. I suspect they will look fairly old, but who knows. This seems like a very steep price for this boat. If I remain interested, I would offer maybe $1000. Even that might be high. There is a local sail maker that could possibly convert the sail into a zipper style, and then I could attach a fairlead to the top of the mast, and raise the sail with a halyard rather than the sock style. I dunno. Looks like a project. But in this price range I don't think there are too many gems.  

dndrich said: OK, I looked at the boat today at the only local sailboat shop here in Sonoma County. The owners are very nice. The boat has been sitting there for years, and shows it. They want $1500 for it with a beat up trailer. The boat will need some work, but not a ton. I will have to take the wood work off and clean and oil. I will have to buff and polish the hull and deck as it is heavily oxidized. The running rigging is in good shape with nice Harken hardware. I will have to take the lines off and soak in Woolite. The tanks were full of water. I suspect the auto bailer, which is apparently a problem in these boats. That should be a reasonably easy fix. He has to find the sail and blades. I suspect they will look fairly old, but who knows. This seems like a very steep price for this boat. If I remain interested, I would offer maybe $1000. Even that might be high. Click to expand...
dndrich said: There is a local sail maker that could possibly convert the sail into a zipper style, and then I could attach a fairlead to the top of the mast, and raise the sail with a halyard rather than the sock style. Click to expand...

i say dont rush it. the price sounds a little to much. you'll find the right one. -kai  

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Replacement parts and accessories for your Vanguard 15 (V-15) sailboat. Please note that due to lack of support from the class approved manufacturer, Laser Performance, some V-15 parts are currently unavailable and therefore not listed on this page.  The parts listed here are generally fittings that work on a number of boats, such as the 420 or FJ, or are more general hardware items or blocks. For additional assistance please contact our Customer Support team.

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vanguard zuma sailboat review

Vanguard Zuma

  • Description

Seller's Description

Use Zuma, hull in very good condition, original mast, sail, tiller, rudder dated but in excellent condition.

Rig and Sails

Auxilary power, accomodations, calculations.

The theoretical maximum speed that a displacement hull can move efficiently through the water is determined by it's waterline length and displacement. It may be unable to reach this speed if the boat is underpowered or heavily loaded, though it may exceed this speed given enough power. Read more.

Classic hull speed formula:

Hull Speed = 1.34 x √LWL

Max Speed/Length ratio = 8.26 ÷ Displacement/Length ratio .311 Hull Speed = Max Speed/Length ratio x √LWL

Sail Area / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the power of the sails relative to the weight of the boat. The higher the number, the higher the performance, but the harder the boat will be to handle. This ratio is a "non-dimensional" value that facilitates comparisons between boats of different types and sizes. Read more.

SA/D = SA ÷ (D ÷ 64) 2/3

  • SA : Sail area in square feet, derived by adding the mainsail area to 100% of the foretriangle area (the lateral area above the deck between the mast and the forestay).
  • D : Displacement in pounds.

Ballast / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the stability of a boat's hull that suggests how well a monohull will stand up to its sails. The ballast displacement ratio indicates how much of the weight of a boat is placed for maximum stability against capsizing and is an indicator of stiffness and resistance to capsize.

Ballast / Displacement * 100

Displacement / Length Ratio

A measure of the weight of the boat relative to it's length at the waterline. The higher a boat’s D/L ratio, the more easily it will carry a load and the more comfortable its motion will be. The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more.

D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³

  • D: Displacement of the boat in pounds.
  • LWL: Waterline length in feet

Comfort Ratio

This ratio assess how quickly and abruptly a boat’s hull reacts to waves in a significant seaway, these being the elements of a boat’s motion most likely to cause seasickness. Read more.

Comfort ratio = D ÷ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x Beam 1.33 )

  • D: Displacement of the boat in pounds
  • LOA: Length overall in feet
  • Beam: Width of boat at the widest point in feet

Capsize Screening Formula

This formula attempts to indicate whether a given boat might be too wide and light to readily right itself after being overturned in extreme conditions. Read more.

CSV = Beam ÷ ³√(D / 64)

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  2. Research Vanguard Sailboats Zuma Racing Sailboat Boat on iboats.com

    vanguard zuma sailboat review

  3. Research Vanguard Sailboats Zuma Racing Sailboat Boat on iboats.com

    vanguard zuma sailboat review

  4. Research Vanguard Sailboats Zuma Racing Sailboat Boat on iboats.com

    vanguard zuma sailboat review

  5. Research Vanguard Sailboats Zuma Racing Sailboat Boat on iboats.com

    vanguard zuma sailboat review

  6. Vanguard Zuma, 1994, Dallas, Texas, sailboat for sale from Sailing

    vanguard zuma sailboat review

VIDEO

  1. Pearson Vanguard 32, Galveston Bay TX

  2. Amazing boat fits in a box

  3. UAV Response

  4. Fun Zuma ride

  5. Monitor Your Whole Boat From Home On A Mobile App

  6. Sailing on Shadow Lake

COMMENTS

  1. Vanguard Zuma Vs. Vanguard Laser

    87689 posts · Joined 1999. #2 · May 12, 2001. My wife and I own a Zuma and have enjoyed four years sailing with it on an inland lake in Maine. It is a great boat for one or two, but would be very tight for three. The cockpit is generous for a boat this size and is more comfortable (better for 40 something sailors)in our opinion than the laser.

  2. Sunfish or Zuma?

    I am trying to decide what boat I want to get after I sell my Catalina 14.2. There is a thread Sunfish, Laser, or Force 5 that "I" started and I got some very good information comparing those (3) boats. I was doing some looking and I came across the Zuma. The main looks to be rigged very much...

  3. Zuma?

    The 1988 Alcort Zuma Standard sailboat has a fiberglass hull and has an overall length of 12.92 feet. The width (or beam) of this craft is 51 inches. This boat is rigged as a Cat. The sail area for the sailboat is 65 square feet. The displacement for the boat is approximately 129 lbs.

  4. Laser vs. Zuma

    TNT. Zuma has less square feet of sail and is a little bit shorter therefore it is slower.. Though easyier to sail. "The Zuma makes sailing easy. From it's inception, the Zuma was designed without compromise for the function and comfort of recreational sailors. You will enjoy a nearly seven foot long cockpit with comfy rolled seat tanks.

  5. amf alcort Zuma info

    Aug 5, 2005. #2. Vanguard. I doubt there is much difference between a Vanguard and an AMF Zuma - your best source of info is likely to be Vanguard at the link below. A friend who is restoring an old CFJ was able to get good info from them & if there is not much difference a current manual and parts list should help you a lot. J.

  6. Purchase advice

    I'm seeing Sunfish, a Dyer Dhow Midget, Puffer, sailfish, Laser & a Zuma all listed for under $1k, which is a lot less than cancelled summer camp. As stand-in counselor and bunk mates, I'm thinking that although the Zuma or Laser will be way more fun to sail, the Dyer & Puffer can maybe hold an extra non-sailor parent and double as a ...

  7. ZUMA

    The Zuma was designed to provide fun and performance in a safe and super stable package. Specifications: LOA: 12'9". Beam: 5'. Sail Area: 65 square feet. Hull Weight: 130 lbs. Features: Two water-tight ports with storage bags for valuables, clothes, towel, and munchies. Comfortable rolled seat tanks.

  8. ZUMA

    ZUMA Save to Favorites BOTH US IMPERIAL METRIC Sailboat Specifications Definitions

  9. Sailing my Zuma sailboat

    I learned how to sail this summer. I bought this Zuma sailboat and figured out how to sail. I took the GoPro out and did some filming.Please like and Subscri...

  10. Zuma

    Zuma is a 12′ 9″ / 3.9 m monohull sailboat designed by Gary Grossman/Steve Nichols and built by AMF Corp. and Pearson Yachts starting in 1984.

  11. Research 2012

    2012 Vanguard Sailboats Zuma for sale in Vanguardsailboats, UT. Buy your next boat on iboats.com from dealers, owners, and brokers. Need to sell a boat? Sell it here on iboats.com. Listing: 1225338

  12. 1985 Vanguard Zuma

    This offering includes: 1985 Zuma sailboat with a sturdy trailer Hull and all components (Mast, boom, sail. tiller, daggerboard) in good condition

  13. Practical Sailor Reviews Seven Performance-Sailing Dinghies

    The low mast height and high aspect ratio sprit sail is very versatile, affording young (and small, 65 to 130 pounds) sailors a wide window of decent performance. The flat bottom, slab-sided hull is responsive to crew weight-driven trim changes, and the better the sailor, the more agile they become.

  14. 1985 Vanguard Zuma sailboat for sale in North Carolina

    North Carolina. $800. Description: 1985 Zuma sailboat with galvanized trailer. 13ft 9in length. 4ft 1inch beam. Similar in size and characteristics to a Sunfish or Laser. This offering includes: - 1985 Zuma sailboat with a sturdy trailer. - Hull and all components (Mast, boom, sail. tiller, daggerboard) in good condition.

  15. VANGUARD ZUMA RIGGING MANUAL Pdf Download

    View and Download Vanguard ZUMA rigging manual online. ZUMA boat pdf manual download.

  16. Elegy for the Vanguard 15: Good Things Do End, But That's Okay…

    Vanguard 15 Fleet Race regattas began declining in participation years ago, but only recently have the long-preferred team race regattas followed suit.

  17. An Introduction To The Zuma Sailboat

    After winning a variety of other awards and races, Vanguard boats have recently become the chosen sailboats for use in the Olympic Games and other small boat racing competitions. With the Zuma Sailboat, owners get all of the rich histories of Vanguard Sailboats in a form that is feasible for most people's income.

  18. Should I buy a Force 5?

    Should I buy a Force 5? SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more! 21 - 30 of 30 Posts 1 2 K

  19. Should I buy a Force 5?

    The Force 5 would meet your needs a bit better, I think, if you are primarily going to singlehand it, the Force 5 (or a Laser, for that manner, as they are essentially equivalents, except for the reasons noted above) Will be lots more fun. The boat is probably not a good buy if it has any major problems, as you said.

  20. 2006 Vanguard Zuma

    Seller's Description. Like-new 2006 Vanguard Zuma Sailboat. The Zuma is about 13' long and about 4.5' wide. The 4' long cockpit provides enough room for 2 adults or 3 children. Beautiful wood rudder and daggerboard. The Zuma is fast yet due to the wide beam it is very stable. The boat has a much larger cockpit as compared to the Sunfish ...

  21. Zuma

    Today I received a zuma and found out that I have the wrong sail. Anybody selling a zuma sail. Also when I sit on the sides while in the grass I can hear some significant cracking and feels like the sides sink a little bit. Where the rear ropes hold the boom near the rudder one of the eye bolts...

  22. Vanguard 15 Sailboat Parts and Accessories

    Replacement parts and accessories for your Vanguard 15 (V-15) sailboat. Please note that due to lack of support from the class approved manufacturer, Laser Performance, some V-15 parts are currently unavailable and therefore not listed on this page.

  23. How will Britain's defense review affect its allies?

    Whoever occupies the White House in 2025 will still find a "special relationship," but its junior partner will have less hard power to contribute.

  24. Vanguard Zuma

    Use Zuma, hull in very good condition, original mast, sail, tiller, rudder dated but in excellent condition.