grampian 28 sailboat

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76 Grampian 28?

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I just looked at a grampian 28. It is in good condition with a yanmar2gm20 engine,tiller with autohelm,most gages, but no head. Just an empty space. asking price is 10900. My question: Is it worth the price as is? I dont want to put in a portapotty. I would put in sink, shower,and toilet. Is this a major expence? Everything else on the boat seems to be in good order.  

$10,900 seems like an awful lot of money for a 1976 Grampian 28 with no head. After all this is a 26 year old boat and one that was not very well regarded when she was new. early Grampians from the mid-1960''s were very nicely built but by the late 1960''s and early 1970''s Grampian had become a ''value oriented'' builder and was cutting corners that probably should not have been cut. I helped do a number of repairs to a Grampian of that era and these were not very good boats. The 28 was an effort to clean up their act and was a nice boat in many ways but still had a number of build quality issues and fairly or not, was seen as being tainted by Grampain''s earlier reputation for mediocre quality. Beyond the generalities of the Grampian 28, you can expect to find some ''issues'' with any boat this age. Unless very well maintained and updated by a previous owner, you should expect to need to address some combination of the following items: · Sails, chainplates, mast step and associated suporting structure, standing and running rigging that are well beyond their useful lifespan, · an engine that is in need of rebuild or replacement, · worn out or out of date deck, and galley hardware, · worn out upholstery, · Out of date safety gear · electronics that are non operational, or in need of updating, · electrical and plumbing systems that need repairs, upgrades to modern standards or replacement. The electrical system on the Grampians in particular was pretty poorly done. · Blister (the late 1970''s begins the worst period for blister problems), fatigue, rudder, hull to deck joint or deck coring problems · Keel bolt replacement. · And perhaps a whole range of aesthetic issues. As to your specfic question about upgrading the head with a sink and a shower, if I remember correctly Grampian 28''s have a very tight head compartment. They had a head with a sink that slid out when needed. Installing a new good quality head is not all that expensive, perhaps $200-500, a range that assumes that you only need a head and some hoses to assuming you need a holding tank, thru-hulls/seacocks, and associated pluming and you are doing the work yourself. I ma not sure about this but I sort of thing that the sink drained into the toilet if I remember correctly and because of its outboard position would need to have a check valve if you plumbed it directly into its own drain (nothing should plumb into the head discharge and you can''t plumb it into the head intake without a valving system. As to a shower, beyond the sheer tightness of the head compartment, is the issue of a sump. I don''t believe these boats have a sump. if I remember correctly, in order to gain a little more headroom you are actually walking in the bilge as you walk forward. Showers need a way to collect and discharge the grey water. On a small boat there is usually a sump that drains into the bilge (not the best way to go) or a more complicated sump with its own discharge pump which is a better set up in all ways. The sump with pump requires a bilge that is tall enough below the decks for the pump and so cuts 4 or 5 inches out of headroom. In the Grampian you would have to build this sump and the grate above it and either install, wire and plumb the sump pump and plumbing or try to plumb the water to a bilge which I don''t beleive would be very easy if I remember correctly how these boats were constructed. (Its been well over 20 years since I looked at one of these boats so you will need to study this out for yourself.)If you can drain to the bilge you can probably install a shower for $200 to $300 (glass a sump, build a grate, and add a pressure water system). If you have to do a sump and pump add a couple hundred more for the pump, switching, wiring, backflow preventer, and plumbing. Good luck, Jeff  

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Jeff,I appreciated your comments.I am glad that you spent the time to reply. In regards to ages of boats, when is a boat ready for the scrapyard? After 20 years? I can only afford a late 70''s to mid 80''s boat. If I am only going to get about five useful years out of one of these boats, its hardly worth considering. What are your thoughts?  

I have a 1968 Grampian 26 that I bought 3 years ago and have sailed extensively since then. This boat had a completely new electrical system installed by the previous owner, as well as an Imron paint job, custom SS bow pulpit and teak anchor platform. The interior was stripped down to the bare plywoood, and I completely rebuilt it, using mahogany plywood and solid mahogany and fir. I have made many upgrades both in the interior and on deck. This is a solid, well-built boat. There are no deck leaks, no soft spots or delaminated areas, or blisters. The Grampian 26 is surprisingly fast under sail, and with it''s heavy ballast/displacement ratio, it is stiff and does not require reefing until it really blows. My wife and I, along with her teenage daughter, cruised on this boat for 4 months last winter. We had no boat-related problems. As to age, and whether or not old boats like this "wear out", I recommend you read Don Casey''s book THIS OLD BOAT. Lots of info in there on refurbishing and on the sensiblility of buying an old boat.  

Actually, as a structural engineer and in that era, the Grampians were actually quality component, well-made boats whose stodgy shaped allowed an uncommon amount of cabin space. They also have a nice amount of weight to them compared to others in it''s class so it affords them that extra bit of stability. Most boats in it''s class are scaled up smaller, so-so quality boats. You will notice the difference as you come across more and more boats. As far as a boat wearing out because of age? That''s a new one to me. These boats are fiberglas, not wood. Gelcoats however do go dull after a while and also get superficial crazing and cracking at high stress points, you will see this mostly in the mast area. Because of its following and cabin size, Grampians''s seem to have a high resale value. But look around, condition is key and watch out for boats that have been sitting forever outside. Good luck!  

I would not think that fiberglass has a life span per se. Neither concrete nor fiberglass truly breaks down or looses strength on their own. They require other causes. In the case of fiberglass loss of strength can result from one or more of the following, -The surface resins will UV degrade. -Prolonged saturation with water will effect the byproducts formed in the hardening process turning some into acids. These acids can break down the bond between the glass reinforcing and the resin. (Grampian used a lot of accellerators and in the one I owned and the ones I helped work on this results in micro crazing which concerns me structurally over time.) -Fiberglass is prone to fatigue in areas repetitively loaded and unloaded at the point where it is repetitively deflected. High load concentration areas such as at bulkheads, hull/deck joints and keel joints are particularly prone. -Salts suspended in water will move through some of the larger capillaries within the matrix. Salts have larger molecules than water. At some point these salts cannot move further and are deposited as the water keeps moving toward an area with lower moisture content. Once dried these salt turn into a crystalline form and exert great pressure on the adjacent matrix. -Poor construction techniques with poorly handled cloth, poorly mixed or over accelerated resins, and poor resin to fiber ratios were very typical in early fiberglass boats. These weaker areas can be actually subjected to higher stresses that result from much heavier boats. Its not all that unusual to see small spider cracking and/or small fractures in early glass boats. -Of course beyond the simple fiberglass degradation there is core deterioration, and the deterioration of such things as the plywood bulkheads and flats that form a part of the boat''s structure. There are probably other forms of degradation that I have not thought of but I think that the real end of the life of a boat is going to be economic. In other words the cost to maintain and repair an old boat will get to be far beyond what it is worth in the marketplace. I would guess this was the end of more wooden boats than rot. I can give you a bit of an example from land structures. When I was doing my thesis in college, I came across a government statistic which if I remember it correctly suggested that in the years between 1948 and 1973 more houses had been built in America than in all of history before that time. In another study these houses were estimated to have a useful life span of 35 years or so. As an architect today I see a lot of thirty five year old houses that need new bathrooms, kitchens, heating systems, modern insulation, floor finishes, etc. But beyond the physical problems of these houses, tastes have changes so that today these houses in perfect shape still has proportionately small market value. With such a small market value it often does not make sense from a resale point of view to rebuild and these houses are therefore often sold for little more than land value. At some level, this drives me crazy, since we are tearing down perfectly solid structures that 35 years ago was perfectly adequate for the people who built it, but today does not meet the "modern" standards. The same thing happens in boats. You may find a boat that has a perfectly sound hull. Perhaps it needs sails, standing and running rigging, a bit of galley updating, some minor electronics upgrades, a bit or rewiring, new plumbing, upholstery, a little deck core work, an engine rebuild, or for the big spender, replacement. Pretty soon you can buy a much newer boat with all relatively new gear for far less than you''d have in the old girl. Its not hard for an old boat to suddenly be worth more as salvage than as a boat. For example, a couple years ago a couple friends of mine were given a Rainbow in reasonable shape. She just needed sails and they wanted an auxiliary, but even buying everything used the boat was worth a lot less than the cost of the "new" parts. When they couldn''t afford the slip fees, the Rainbow was disposed of. She now graces a landfill and the cast iron keel was sold for scrap for more than they could sell the whole boat for. Wooden boats represent the difference between a maintainable construction method versus a low maintenance. A wooden boat can be rebuilt for a nearly infinite period of time until it becomes a sailing equivalent of ''George Washington''s axe'' (as in "that''s George Washinton''s axe. It''s had a few new handles and a few new heads but that is still George Washington''s axe".) But fiberglass boats are much less rebuildable. You can replace many of the components but when the major structure reaches the end of its life there is nothing that can be done. I think that you can find good solid boats from the 1960''s and 1970''s that were built by quaility builders and well maintained by prior owners. These are the best deals because that owner has spent the money to buy new and taken the hit on the limited market value of these boats. Grampians of the era you are considering were pretty junky and so would not necessarily fall in that category. And finally if you buy an old fiberglass boat, paint the bilges white. It does nothing for the boat, but if you ever have to sell the boat, then someone may look in your bilge and say "Lets buy her because any man that would love a boat so much that he went through the trouble to paint the bilge white must have enjoyed this boat and taken great care of her no matter what her age." Good Luck, Jeff  

I have owned a Grampian 28 for many years and have never run across the problems listed in other answers. The boat is nice and stiff and fast. Back in the 70's was a good 1/2 ton racer. The answer is maintenace.  

I am looking at a Grampian 28 myself built in 1977. Thank you for your input. What would you say is a good offer price for this boat in decent condition?  

Nine year old thread!  

I know it can be frustrating waiting for an answer one needs pretty quickly, so I'll just point out that treb001 hasn't posted since 2012. They might be lurking silently but I wouldn't hold my breath.  

Thanks brother, ya good point. I won't hold my breath.  

42 year old boats in that size range it really depends on condition and how it is equipped how has it been maintained and sail condition 4 to 12 k Spend the extra to get a great condition boat that has been sailing and has all newer sailing stuff with it If you get a cheap fixer upper it will end up costing you more in the lon run  

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1976 Grampian 28

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1975 Grampian 28

• Description

Seller's Description

Grampian 28 , 24.5 Waterline , 9.6 beam , High free board, 4’10” , lead keel , Displacement 6900 lb 3060 Bls

Lots of up dates , main , Bimini , cockpit , head , compass . chart plotter , sink, bilge, bottom paint , deck paint, sheets

Rig and Sails

Auxilary power, accomodations, calculations.

The theoretical maximum speed that a displacement hull can move efficiently through the water is determined by it's waterline length and displacement. It may be unable to reach this speed if the boat is underpowered or heavily loaded, though it may exceed this speed given enough power. Read more.

Classic hull speed formula:

Hull Speed = 1.34 x √LWL

Max Speed/Length ratio = 8.26 ÷ Displacement/Length ratio .311 Hull Speed = Max Speed/Length ratio x √LWL

Sail Area / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the power of the sails relative to the weight of the boat. The higher the number, the higher the performance, but the harder the boat will be to handle. This ratio is a "non-dimensional" value that facilitates comparisons between boats of different types and sizes. Read more.

SA/D = SA ÷ (D ÷ 64) 2/3

• SA : Sail area in square feet, derived by adding the mainsail area to 100% of the foretriangle area (the lateral area above the deck between the mast and the forestay).
• D : Displacement in pounds.

Ballast / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the stability of a boat's hull that suggests how well a monohull will stand up to its sails. The ballast displacement ratio indicates how much of the weight of a boat is placed for maximum stability against capsizing and is an indicator of stiffness and resistance to capsize.

Ballast / Displacement * 100

Displacement / Length Ratio

A measure of the weight of the boat relative to it's length at the waterline. The higher a boat’s D/L ratio, the more easily it will carry a load and the more comfortable its motion will be. The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more.

D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds.
• LWL: Waterline length in feet

Comfort Ratio

This ratio assess how quickly and abruptly a boat’s hull reacts to waves in a significant seaway, these being the elements of a boat’s motion most likely to cause seasickness. Read more.

Comfort ratio = D ÷ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x Beam 1.33 )

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds
• LOA: Length overall in feet
• Beam: Width of boat at the widest point in feet

Capsize Screening Formula

This formula attempts to indicate whether a given boat might be too wide and light to readily right itself after being overturned in extreme conditions. Read more.

CSV = Beam ÷ ³√(D / 64)

The later INTREPID 28, by Cape Dory, was based on this same design/tooling. Shoal draft: 3.75’/1.14m Photo courtesy Adam Hunt.

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Grampian 28

• Thread starter Flashman
• Start date Jun 15, 2004
• Brand-Specific Forums

I'm considering the purchase of a '75 Grampian 28. Can anyone advise me of the seaworthiness of these boats? I sail the North Carolina coast.  

Great Boats!!! They were built in an era where they related hull quality with strength and thickness of the glass. You won't find many problems with any Grampian that has been taken care of.Go to the website - www.geocities.com/grampianowners/ for tons of information on these roomy, safe, and very fast boats.Very seaworthy - many have crossed oceans, and quite a large number of them cruise and race on the inland seas known as the Great Lakes.Cheers  

Spongy Cockpit Sole The boat I am considering has a spongy cockpit sole. I was told this is a common problem with Grampians. Do you have any knowledge of this and if so, how involved is it to make the proper repairs? Thanks,  

Not a "common" problem - The cockpit sole will have 3/4" plywood underneath the fibreglass. Sometimes there may be a leak at the top of the ruddershaft that can cause some delamination, but it is not a big deal to repair and seal. Check of course with a professional surveyor, and go under the sole yourself with a good light and have a look.My G-26 also has a slight spongy feel in the cockpit floor area, but there is no water penetration anywhere. A survey this spring verified that all was solid and intact.  

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Beam:  9'6'    Draft:  4'10'     Beam:  9.6'    Draft:  4' © 2001-2024 ./)   . . ./)   . . Grampian 28 sailboat, 1975 , hull and decks re-finished. in Telegraph Cove, British Columbia for sale The Grampion 28 is a well respected classic cruising vessel. The Grampion design is a nice blend of traditional and modern hull design. The hull has a moderate beam, a longer fin keel with lead ballast and a good tracking hull running aft to partial skeg hung rudder. This will give you a directionally stable traditional feel, with better maneuverability, and higher hull speeds then a comparable full keel. The custom hard dodger fitted to this vessel was well thought out and executed. Volvo diesel 20 hp GPS with plotter, Sounder and build-in and portable VHF radios. Dinghy and outboard motor. Solar panel, 2 house batteries, plus starter battery. Stove needs replacement. Same owners for 19 years, never raced or chartered. Grampian 28 (Q48989572) Language Label Description Also known as English Identifiers Wikipedia (1 entry). enwiki Grampian 28 Wikibooks (0 entries) Wikinews (0 entries), wikiquote (0 entries), wikisource (0 entries), wikiversity (0 entries), wikivoyage (0 entries), wiktionary (0 entries), multilingual sites (1 entry). commonswiki Category:Grampian 28 Navigation menu 427 IMAGES 1977 GRAMPIAN 28 sailboat for sale in Outside United States GRAMPIAN 28 1975 Grampian 28 1975 grampian 28 sailboat for sale in Outside United States Grampian 28 Photo Album 1977 GRAMPIAN 28 sailboat for sale in Outside United States VIDEO Power Consumption & Production Aboard A Sailboat Our Biggest Ever Upgrade Sailing Lessons Learned: Rigging Failures on My Vintage Sailboat ⛵️😬 Forespar Jibing with a Spinnaker Pole SATURDAY CLINIC 7 13 24 HD 1080p Baja Single-Handed Sailing COMMENTS GRAMPIAN 28 A boat with a BN of 1.6 or greater is a boat that will be reefed often in offshore cruising. Derek Harvey, "Multihulls for Cruising and Racing", International Marine, Camden, Maine, 1991, states that a BN of 1 is generally accepted as the dividing line between so-called slow and fast multihulls. Grampian 28 The Grampian 28 is a recreational keelboat, built predominantly of fiberglass, with wood trim.It has a masthead sloop rig, a skeg-mounted rudder and a fixed fin keel.It displaces 6,900 lb (3,130 kg) and carries 3,060 lb (1,388 kg) of ballast. [1] [3]The boat has a draft of 4.83 ft (1.47 m) with the standard keel fitted and 3.75 ft (1.14 m) with the optional shoal draft keel. Grampian 28 Grampian 28 is a 27′ 11″ / 8.5 m monohull sailboat designed by Rolf van der Sleen and built by Grampian Marine starting in 1975. ... The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more. Formula. D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³ D: Displacement of the boat in pounds. LWL ... Grampian G28 Grampian Model Chronology. G 26 designed in 1969 about 980 built plus # 999 a special production order. G 23 designed in 1972 - about 300 built. G 28 designed in 1975 - 107 built - designed in house by Rolf van der Sleen with a view to competing in the half-ton racing class. G 30 designed in 1969 about 350 built. Grampian sailboats for sale by owner. Grampian preowned sailboats for sale by owner. Grampian used sailboats for sale by owner. Grampian Marine Grampian Marine was one of the first manufacturers fiberglass sailboats in Canada. It was founded by Jim Bisiker, owner of a construction company at Oakville, Ontario. ... Sailboats Built By Grampian Marine ... GRAMPIAN 28: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m: 1975: GRAMPIAN 30: 29.75 ft / 9.07 m: 1969: GRAMPIAN 34: 33.58 ft / 10.24 m: 1972: GRAMPIAN 46: 46.00 ... Grampian 28 The Grampian 28 is a 28.0ft masthead sloop designed by Rolf van der Sleen and built in fiberglass by Grampian Marine since 1975. 107 units have been built. The Grampian 28 is a moderate weight sailboat which is a reasonably good performer. It is very stable / stiff and has a low righting capability if capsized. It is best suited as a coastal ... Grampian Owners' Marina The place for Grampian Sailboat Owners! Menu. Home; Discussion Forum; Select Model. Grampian Classic 22; Grampian 23; Grampian 26; Discovery 7.9; Grampian 28; Grampian 30; Grampian Classic 31; Grampian 34 (Center Cockpit) Grampian 2-34; Grampian 46; Other Grampians; Docs & Manuals. Documents & Manuals; Brochures; Grampian Info. Owners Registry. Looking at a Grampian 28 as my first great lakes sailboat. Anyone have Looking at a Grampian 28 as my first great lakes sailboat. Anyone have experience? She's in good shape, has wheel and autopilot, spinnaker, furling, gps, and the price is right. I have sailed the G26, but wondering about the 28's handling. Any advice would be most welcome! 16-04-2014, 10:36 #2: 76 Grampian 28? Everything else on the boat seems to be in good order. $10,900 seems like an awful lot of money for a 1976 Grampian 28 with no head. After all this is a 26 year old boat and one that was not very well regarded when she was new. early Grampians from the mid-1960''s were very nicely built but by the late 1960''s and early 1970''s Grampian had ... 1976 Grampian 28 The 1976 Grampian 28 sailboat has a fiberglass hull and has an overall length of 28 feet (sometimes referred to as LOA). The width (or beam) of this craft is 96 inches. This boat is rigged as a Sloop. The sail area for the sailboat is 384 square feet. The displacement for the boat is approximately 6900 lbs. 1977 GRAMPIAN 28 sailboat for sale in Outside United States ALL EMERGENCY SUPPLIES.YANMAR 1GM10 DIESEL WITH SAILDRIVE. 1 QT/HOUR @ HULL SPEED.FUEL 12GALLONS. HOLDING TANK 20 GALS, WATER 20GALS. 6' FIBERGLASS DINGY OARS. MOORING BUOY AVAILABE @ $2300. Equipment: Location: LADYSMITH BC CANADA, Outside United States. L26735. 250-749-4005. Grampian Marine Grampian Marine was one of the first manufacturers fiberglass sailboats in Canada. It was founded by Jim Bisiker, owner of a construction company at Oakville, Ontario. Bisiker, along with Dick Kneulman and John Burn began building small fiberglass boats under license from Dyer Yachts of Rhode Island, USA. At the time, Dyer was at the leading ... Grampian 28 Price range: $20,000 to $24,000. The Grampian 28 is more contemporary and nicer looking than the other Grampian models which are usually found on the used market. Although it has a fairly high freeboard, it doesn't have the spoon-bow which is characteristic of some other Grampian models. While this 28 footer may not be as plentiful as either ... 1975 Grampian 28 Grampian 28 , 24.5 Waterline , 9.6 beam , High free board, 4'10" , lead keel , Displacement 6900 lb 3060 Bls ... The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more. Formula. D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³ D: Displacement of the boat in pounds. LWL: Waterline length in feet; 1975 grampian 28 sailboat for sale in Outside United States 1975 28' grampian 28 sailboat for sale in Port Dover Outside United States Grampian 28 Check of course with a professional surveyor, and go under the sole yourself with a good light and have a look.u000bMy G-26 also has a slight spongy feel in the cockpit floor area, but there is no water penetration anywhere. A survey this spring verified that all was solid and intact. I'm considering the purchase of a '75 Grampian 28. Grampian sailboats for sale by owner. Grampian preowned sailboats for sale by owner. Grampian used sailboats for sale by owner. Home. Register & Post. View All Sailboats. Search. Avoid Fraud. ... 28' Clark Boat Company San Juan 28 Narrows Marina Tacoma, Washington Asking $8,000. 28' westsail westsail 28 boca chica panama centralamerica, Asking $17,000. GRAMPIAN 26 28.00 ft / 8.53 m: E: ... Grampian offered a Palmer (gas) inboard as an option. ... 1997), states that a boat with a BN of less than 1.3 will be slow in light winds. A boat with a BN of 1.6 or greater is a boat that will be reefed often in offshore cruising. Derek Harvey, "Multihulls for Cruising and Racing", International Marine, Camden ... Grampian 28 sailboat, 1975 , hull and decks re-finished The Grampion 28 is a well respected classic cruising vessel. The Grampion design is a nice blend of traditional and modern hull design. The hull has a moderate beam, a longer fin keel with lead ballast and a good tracking hull running aft to partial skeg hung rudder. This will give you a directionally stable traditional feel, with better maneuverability, and higher hull speeds then a ... Grampian 28 Grampian 28 (Q48989572) From Wikidata. Jump to navigation Jump to search. sailboat class. edit. Language Label Description Also known as; English: Grampian 28. sailboat class. Statements. instance of. sailboat class. 0 references. subclass of. monohull. 1 reference. Wikimedia import URL. GRAMPIAN 30 GRAMPIAN 30. Save to Favorites . Beta Marine. BOTH. US IMPERIAL. METRIC. ... 186.00 ft² / 17.28 m² ... Like the LWL, it will vary with the weights of fuel, water, stores and equipment. A boat's actual draft is usually somewhat more than the original designed or advertised draft. For boats with adjustable keels (centerboards, daggerboards ... catamaran gulet motorboat powerboat riverboat sailboat trimaran yacht