17-10-2005, 00:13 | |
Boat: Super Van Craft 1320 Power Yacht | - and they can look very silly - and usually take away from the overall look of the vessel. A wheel and will also take up space - which is why they are usually best suited on a larger vessel. Hower, a tiller will always give a helmsman better 'feedback' from the than a wheel ever could, and is usually more responsive. Finally, a tiller can get tiring if you've any excess or the yacht is not balanced. Hope this helps JOHN |
17-10-2005, 12:14 | |
Boat: Farr 11.6 (AKA Farr 38) Synergy | (say under 40 feet or so). Tillers generally have less mechanical advantage than a wheel and so on a with large loads; a tiller will require more strength to steer. On a modern fin keel/ spade boat, the loads tend to be lighter and so the mechanical advantage of a wheel is not as necessary. In the case of a boat with high helm loads, a tiller is more tiring. In the case of a boat that is well balanced, a wheel (because you not only have to move the rudder but also overcome friction) is more tiring. On small boats wheels become far more tiring because of the greater friction and the need to hold your arm out. I personally like a tiller, especially on a boat under 40 feet. I find that by using a tiller extension it is easier to move around and see the trim of the , find a comfortable position to sit or adjust course. I find it tiring to have to hold my arm out to reach the wheel rather than to just sit with the tiller extension sitting on my knee. I do a lot of single-handing and strongly prefer the ability to have a tiller extension within my reach almost anywhere in my . I find that it easier to use shock cord to pretension the tiller to hold a course than it is lock off a wheel which can only hold a fixed position rather than flex as the loads increase allowing the boat to find its own balance. Tillers well on modern boats up to about 40 feet. Wheels better on larger boats and heavier boats because the loads are greater. Autopilots used to better for wheel steered boats but now can be purchased in equal quality for both wheel and tiller steering. Wheels involve a mechanical system, which in my mind is just one more thing to maintain and to break. I hate crawling under the cockpit by way of a cramped sail locker, hanging upside down to rerun a steering cable that has jumped the quadrant. That seems to happen less with more modern wheel steering systems but it still happens. Tillers seem to be more preferable for coastal cruising while cruisers seem to prefer wheels. Mass production boats seem to show up with wheels these days. Specialized quality boats seem to show up with tillers. Tillers swing through a bigger area of the cockpit while sailing but wheels permanently occupy a bigger area of the cockpit and are a pain in the butt to get around. Tillers can be tilted out of the way when you get to port; the binnacle for a wheel can support tables and the like. Binnacles give you something to hold onto in a seaway. Some people feel that wheels are more nautical or shippy. Others think that wheels on small boats are an affectation like the guy on a daysailor who wears a captains hat. In the end, it comes down to what you feel most comfortable with. Each has their proponents and advantages. Jeff |
17-10-2005, 16:25 | |
Boat: '67 Cal 20, Aurora and "73 Rival 34, Southern Rival | , etc. To my wife and I, it seemed that manipulating the controls while managing the tiller would be more of a challenge, or does it just seem that way until one is experienced? Thanks! Jim H |
17-10-2005, 16:59 | |
Boat: currently "on the beach" | and has not driven a 30 foot, 12 ton boat. no question that you become a better sailor if you spend time on a tiller. i have spent more time on tiller than wheel, but i never felt comfortable in the way i had to grip any tiller extension, so if we were going upwind with intent, and sitting , it felt awkward to me. downwind with a tiller, helmsman has to be forward. definitely better performance and a must for anyone up to 30, maybe 35 feet because of the quick response to feather through or max a small gust or shift. on a cruiser, i do think a binnacle with controls up within reach is a real plus. i think a wheel is easier and, if you have the touch, you can get good feedback on the rudder. while the helmsman is trapped behind the wheel, positioning running lines and winches aft makes it easy to do all but reef from behind the wheel, and lets others move around as they will without being in the way. i am comfortable sitting out and reaching to the side of the wheel to drive. i can tack without moving out from behind the wheel. when i need to adjust other lines - "auto" is also right on the binnacle as well. so for my 10 cents - = tiller, cruising = drink holder. capt. lar |
17-10-2005, 18:30 | |
17-10-2005, 21:16 | |
Boat: Its in French Polynesia now | |
17-10-2005, 21:45 | |
in 25kts. I do agree with your overall size . I would go you one better and say that a wheel on anything under 30' is just dumb. | |
17-10-2005, 23:31 | |
Boat: 1976 Sabre 28-2 | helm, they are way tiring than standing trying to hang on to that frigid piece of . Feel, there ain't no feel in a wheel. Really think that there are a lot of people getting into sailing later in life or from a background and think anything that moves should be steered by a wheel. They haven't come up through the ranks of small boats and felt the control and sensitivity of a tiller. Also think there is a lot of pure snobberyl to a wheel, after all, have you seen a Hinckley with a tiller. Listen to the way people brag about them in there ads makes you wonder whether they are selling a boat or an . Same type of people who will pay three times what a shirt is worth simply because it has some idiot riding a horse with a mallet embroidered on it and then the shirt doesn't even come with a proper pocket. I've made a handed from SF to LA in 3 1/2 days with a tiller steered boat that could only politely be called heavy on the helm. Never had a problem with being tiresome though 72 hours without sleep left me a bit wierd. Have sailed other boats with wheels on short overnight and been totally exhausted by the lack of feel and fighting the backlash of the wheel as it beat my fingers into pulp as the boat pitched into the swell. The wheel made what should have been a short enjoyable overnight sail into a torture session. As the mechanical advantage of the wheel increases, the feel decreases. Hard to have one with the other. If you don't have much mechanical advantage your my suffer from the wheel beating you to death. Lot's of mechanical advantage and it's like sailing with a guaranteed unbreakable, 6 mil. prophylactic. Ever wonder why the wheels always have that fancy bit of work on one spoke, it's 'cause they can't tell whether the wheel is pointing, north-south or at the moon without it. Wheels add unecessary additional mechanical problems to the simplicity of a tiller. How many boats have been because their wheel steering went tits up when it really counted. Just talked with a friend who is talking of selling his super whizbang toy filled cruiser and giving up sailing because of all the bad feelings and animosity generated by a failing system on a from to . Most wheels are stuck way the hell and gone back in the max spray area of the boat. Just love to get nailed by icey when I'm forced to drive. Probably has something to do with keeping the rest of the cockpit available for apes. Maybe that's why the rich and famous hire Kiwi's to drive their boats, they are crazy enough to stand back there and take it. So much nicer to be tucked up under the as you beat into a late season NorEaster when steering with the tiller. I'm a fan of powered self steering. Simple, mechanical, no electrons and no pollution. The direct connection of the tiller to the rudder, with its inherent lack of friction, makes those simple airborne systems work like a charm. Not necessarily the case when even a super powerful pendulum servo vane has to do battle with the friction inherent in a wheel. People claim that wheels take so much less energy to steer. How much of that energy is eaten up by useless resistance. Autopilots are probably becoming so popular is they deal with the inherent friction of the , sheaves and sprockets of typical wheel system with brute force. Of course if you go with an A/P, you have to add all the expense of feeding it's voracious needs. Additions that can easily cost many times more than the A/P. As far as handing, a tiller makes it so easy. You can steer by straddling the tiller and use your legs to steer. That leaves both hands free to work the sails, the controls, make up lines or even grab a . About the only good thing about a wheel is in port. Actually it's not the wheel but the . You take the wheel and throw it but use the pedestal to mount a table. Is handy to have that table for drinks and pupu's in the cockpit. Of course you can still have a table with a tiller, it just isn't as easy to set up. Ah!! and then there's the inside steering station. Hope I don't ever get so decrepit that I have to turn into that kind of pseudo sailor. When I feel an overwhelming need for an inside steering station, the people will have an answer. If you feel you have to have a wheel, have at it. For me, I'd rather use the boat unit or two of expenditure for something useful like an extra sail, self-tailing winches, or an extra year of cruising. Aloha Peter O. |
18-10-2005, 03:46 | |
Boat: none | |
18-10-2005, 04:15 | |
Boat: Farr 11.6 (AKA Farr 38) Synergy | tiller connection that lends itself to easy adaptation to a tiller. Other boats and especially mid-cockpit boats, are set up in a way where conversion is impossible. Jeff |
18-10-2005, 05:46 | |
Boat: currently "on the beach" | |
18-10-2005, 11:29 | |
Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady | .-- Designed correctly for the size of vessel, and (like any thing on board), well maintained, is one of the safest, reliable and easily maintained steering systems there is available. It is the eaisest system to "modifiy" with auto pilot and additional helms and what ever. Negative-- yes you lose the "feel" you have with a tiller, but any system that gives you a mechanical advantage over a tiller, loses feel(as you acurately stated). For a large cruising boat, Tiller is close to impossible to control. And for a Pilot house, well also for a cruising boat, it's nice to have a place of refuge in real nasty weather. I like the Term Bob Bitchin uses, --"The Storm room". It's a good term. |
18-10-2005, 12:07 | |
Boat: Farr 11.6 (AKA Farr 38) Synergy | . I would not say that it is the easiest wheel steering system to add an to by a longshot. The short tillers used for a rack and pinion type system allow an extremely easy ram . Jeff |
18-10-2005, 12:52 | |
Boat: C&C Landfall 39 center cockpit "Anahita" | system thereby detracting from optimum efficiency. Most of us are myopic when considering the "real world of technology". Hydraulic systems are not only ubiquitous they are VERY reliable and easy to maintain. Virtually all sailboat complaints addressing hydraulics are based upon poor quality of design, , choice of brands. Consider the everyday exposure that most of us have. When have you ever known anyone to put up with a leaky hydraulic brake or steering system on a car? NEVER! What expense have you had to maintain them? Zero in most cases! Yeah, of course after about 200 thousand miles you have to the master cylinder or wheel cylinders. Not bad , I would say. For years the Austrailians have had hydraulic steering systems (I saw my first one in 1978) that were "perfect" in that sailboats could opt for the pumps without checkvalves so that you could push on the rudder and the steering wheel would rotate with the push. One REAL advantage here is that there is essentially ZERO backlash in the system. Such a zero backlash system is GREAT when a hydraulic pumpset for the autopilot is installed. Very small incremental corrections are made to the rudder with very low drain. A kit for a Hynautic ram costs about $25-$35 weighs less than an ounce and packs in a space 2 inches in diameter by 1/2 inch or so. It is relatively easy to install at , obviously you need to be prepared with the correct tools which are not great. If those ram need to be replaced you have plenty of advance warning and so can pick your place of opportunity. The reality is that only a small part of the real world is using cable steering, the vast majority is hydraulic. All reliable construction and is hydraulic, why do you think that is? |
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COMMENTS
Direct comparison: Tiller vs. wheels on the Oceanis 30.1. First of all, have a look at the bare numbers: For this boat, the twin-wheels option is a 1.500 Euros (exVAT) option. For that equivalent of money you can afford the massive Teak in the cockpit. Or the budget for a three week sailing trip in the Baltic Sea. At the same time you will get ...
Control in Challenging Conditions: In rough seas or high winds, a steering wheel provides better leverage and control compared to a tiller. The mechanical advantage afforded by the wheel's design makes it easier to maintain course and stability, enhancing safety and confidence for both experienced and novice sailors.
44. C&C 25 mk2 Seneca Lake. Feb 12, 2022. #9. I sail with a tiller and on the occasion when I helm on a wheel I sometimes catch myself turning the wheel opposite to the desired direction. It's muscle memory and when helming a sailboat is no big deal for me to overcome.
What is the difference between a wheel and a tiller? Often, it is the weight/size ratio of the boat and the personal desires of the yachtsman that determine whether he will be equipped with a tiller or a steering wheel. However, you should know that most sailboats over 30 feet (about 9 m) are equipped with a wheel steering system. In any case, you don't sail the same way with each of these two ...
My biggest wheel boat was 42''x 18k lbs while the biggest tiller boat was 42''x 24k lbs. I once sailed on a 52'' schooner with outboard rudder and 9'' tiller. ... The great replies in this tiller-vs-wheel thread have helped me to consider many additional POVs. For instance, I hadn't considered your observations on motoring -- and my rudder isn ...
Steering wheel advantages. The main advantage of a steering wheel on a sailboat is that they offer a lot more mechanical leverage. You don't need brute force to hold on and to steer. The size of the wheel and the level of the gearing or hydraulics can provide all the leverage needed for the boat size. Some people will also feel a steering ...
So is one better than another? Probably not, it is a matter of preference and i like the tillerhttps://anytiller.com/ Subscribe now! Don't miss a video! Tha...
Tiller vs. Wheel. June 1, 2015. Like. 47 Comments. During our process of shopping for a boat for the next chapter of our adventure, we've come across several boats with a tiller for steering as opposed to a wheel. Each of these boats were in the 35-45 foot range, and almost all of them had crossed the Atlantic at least once.
Re: tiller vs wheel steering on 34-40ft boats My Islander 32 (just shy of 5 tons) is a tiller boat, and I don't think I'd want a wheel on her. Even with a big barn door keel-hung rudder, if the sails are balanced it's no big deal hand steering on long trips. And the auto-tiller was simple to install and works fine.
3. What are some advantages of using a sailboat tiller instead of a wheel? Ah, an excellent question! Using a sailboat tiller has several advantages over using a wheel. First and foremost, one can have better feel and feedback when steering with a tiller. This allows for more precise control and maneuverability in challenging conditions.
Jan 5, 2014. #19. Re: tiller vs wheel steering on 34-40ft boats. Centerline, I noticed a trend in the answers and most boat owners under 30 feet preferred/have the tiller. Most larger boat (30 foot plus) owners preferred/have the wheel. Count myself as in favor of the wheel. Just an observation for what its worth !
Next boat may have a wheel, but even so, I do like a tiller, even on my 29'r. IIRC< in 06 or 07, ALL but one TP52 being built had a tiller! Vs previous yrs, all but one had a wheel! Daysailers will typically have tillers, easier to rig up and down vs trying to rig a wheel to a rudder. A tiller needs one bolt if not two for larger ones. Marty
A tiller is far less maintenance and far less complex. Also, many sailors feel that a tiller steered boat gives the sailor more feedback than a wheel-steered boat. Tillers can be used on even very large boats, given that they are designed for it.
Wheel Steering. Pros -Easier to steer for non-sailors. It's just like driving a car -The wheel gives you something to grab on to! -Autopilots tend to be more accurate. -Maneuvering in the marina is easier, especially when reversing. -Behind the wheel, is a great place for nav equipment, cup holders etc. -You feel like a 'real captain'.
Bayside. Aug 3, 2019. #2. New sailor w very limited (2 years') exp. I own a 28' tiller boat and have sailed a couple of times on a 30' wheel boat. Am looking to upgrade and vastly prefer tiller, but the rest of the world seems firmly in the "wheel camp" and I want to re-examine my reasons and assumptions: - tiller is simpler, less ...
But learning on a wheel vs a tiller isn't going to make much of a difference in your overall sailing skills. Some prefer tillers while some prefer wheels, it's mostly preference. Being able to properly maneuver your boat comes mainly from practice/experience. You're in a good situation, having a bit of experience on tillers and wheels. 10. Reply.
Hunter 35.5 LI, NY. Aug 18, 2006. #2. Wheel steering has more stuff attached to it. (more to go wrong) Tiller is more sensitive and typically faster. Wheel takes up a lot more space in the cockpit. If you tie the tiller in the up position it takes no space at all.u000bIt's just a preference but I prefer tiller any day.
Time was when tillers were the norm. A wheel would be fitted if the owner or builder preferred it or, more commonly, where the size or layout of the boat made a tiller impractical. If, for example, you have a long, narrow-beamed boat, the tiller might take up a lot of length and the beam be insufficient to accommodate its arc.
Tillers swing through a bigger area of the cockpit while sailing but wheels permanently occupy a bigger area of the cockpit and are a pain in the butt to get around. Tillers can be tilted out of the way when you get to port; the binnacle for a wheel can support tables and the like. ... Nice review of wheels vs. tillers. One related question: my ...
Tiller Versus Wheel. By. Darrell Nicholson. -. Published: November 7, 2023 Updated: November 8, 2023. 4. Practical Sailor Editor Darrell Nicholson traces the outline of the tiller for Opal, his Yankee 30. The drawing will be used to fashion a spare tiller. The tiller on Tosca was rough-hewn piece of sawn ash, tough and springy.
One must really look at the position that the skipper sails when using a tiller and when using a wheel. In a small boat, the tiller is the obvious choice. But in a large boat, one often needs to sit high, or stand for adequate viewing forward. A 27-28 is probably the breaking point between the two and the choice becomes personal.
Admittedly, centre cockpit designs have to be wheel steered owing to the distance between the helming position and the rudder. And so do large heavy displacement designs where the tiller would need to be inconveniently long. On a heavy-displacement, centre-cockpit sailboat like this Whitby 42, wheel steering is the only option.
Turning the wheel to the right pointed the rudder to the right, not the boat, just like a tiller arm does, meaning you turned the wheel in the opposite direction you wanted to go ... You just don't need a wheel on a boat under 30ft..... It's (forgive me) Power boat-ish.... but that's just my opinion. (Geez, this response somehow turned into a rant.