freedom 36 sailboat review

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Review of Freedom 36

Basic specs..

The hull is made of fibreglass. Generally, a hull made of fibreglass requires only a minimum of maintenance during the sailing season.

Unknown keel type

The boat can only enter major marinas as the draft is about 1.83 - 1.93 meter (6.00 - 6.30 ft) dependent on the load. See immersion rate below.

The boat is typically equipped with an inboard Yanmar 3GM diesel engine

Sailing characteristics

This section covers widely used rules of thumb to describe the sailing characteristics. Please note that even though the calculations are correct, the interpretation of the results might not be valid for extreme boats.

What is Theoretical Maximum Hull Speed?

The theoretical maximal speed of a displacement boat of this length is 7.4 knots. The term "Theoretical Maximum Hull Speed" is widely used even though a boat can sail faster. The term shall be interpreted as above the theoretical speed a great additional power is necessary for a small gain in speed.

The immersion rate is defined as the weight required to sink the boat a certain level. The immersion rate for Freedom 36 is about 238 kg/cm, alternatively 1333 lbs/inch. Meaning: if you load 238 kg cargo on the boat then it will sink 1 cm. Alternatively, if you load 1333 lbs cargo on the boat it will sink 1 inch.

Sailing statistics

This section is statistical comparison with similar boats of the same category. The basis of the following statistical computations is our unique database with more than 26,000 different boat types and 350,000 data points.

What is L/B (Length Beam Ratio)?

Maintenance

When buying anti-fouling bottom paint, it's nice to know how much to buy. The surface of the wet bottom is about 39m 2 (419 ft 2 ). Based on this, your favourite maritime shop can tell you the quantity you need.

Are your sails worn out? You might find your next sail here: Sails for Sale

If you need to renew parts of your running rig and is not quite sure of the dimensions, you may find the estimates computed below useful.

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• Sailboat Guide

Freedom 36 is a 36 ′ 5 ″ / 11.1 m monohull sailboat designed by Gary Mull and built by Freedom Yachts starting in 1985.

• 2 / 13 Kemah, TX, US 1986 Freedom 36 $49,500 USD View
• 3 / 13 Kemah, TX, US 1986 Freedom 36 $49,500 USD View
• 4 / 13 Kemah, TX, US 1986 Freedom 36 $49,500 USD View
• 5 / 13 Kemah, TX, US 1986 Freedom 36 $49,500 USD View
• 6 / 13 Kemah, TX, US 1986 Freedom 36 $49,500 USD View
• 7 / 13 Kemah, TX, US 1986 Freedom 36 $49,500 USD View
• 8 / 13 Kemah, TX, US 1986 Freedom 36 $49,500 USD View
• 9 / 13 Kemah, TX, US 1986 Freedom 36 $49,500 USD View
• 10 / 13 Kemah, TX, US 1986 Freedom 36 $49,500 USD View
• 11 / 13 Kemah, TX, US 1986 Freedom 36 $49,500 USD View
• 12 / 13 Kemah, TX, US 1986 Freedom 36 $49,500 USD View
• 13 / 13 Kemah, TX, US 1986 Freedom 36 $49,500 USD View

Rig and Sails

Auxilary power, accomodations, calculations.

The theoretical maximum speed that a displacement hull can move efficiently through the water is determined by it's waterline length and displacement. It may be unable to reach this speed if the boat is underpowered or heavily loaded, though it may exceed this speed given enough power. Read more.

Classic hull speed formula:

Hull Speed = 1.34 x √LWL

Max Speed/Length ratio = 8.26 ÷ Displacement/Length ratio .311 Hull Speed = Max Speed/Length ratio x √LWL

Sail Area / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the power of the sails relative to the weight of the boat. The higher the number, the higher the performance, but the harder the boat will be to handle. This ratio is a "non-dimensional" value that facilitates comparisons between boats of different types and sizes. Read more.

SA/D = SA ÷ (D ÷ 64) 2/3

• SA : Sail area in square feet, derived by adding the mainsail area to 100% of the foretriangle area (the lateral area above the deck between the mast and the forestay).
• D : Displacement in pounds.

Ballast / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the stability of a boat's hull that suggests how well a monohull will stand up to its sails. The ballast displacement ratio indicates how much of the weight of a boat is placed for maximum stability against capsizing and is an indicator of stiffness and resistance to capsize.

Ballast / Displacement * 100

Displacement / Length Ratio

A measure of the weight of the boat relative to it's length at the waterline. The higher a boat’s D/L ratio, the more easily it will carry a load and the more comfortable its motion will be. The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more.

D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds.
• LWL: Waterline length in feet

Comfort Ratio

This ratio assess how quickly and abruptly a boat’s hull reacts to waves in a significant seaway, these being the elements of a boat’s motion most likely to cause seasickness. Read more.

Comfort ratio = D ÷ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x Beam 1.33 )

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds
• LOA: Length overall in feet
• Beam: Width of boat at the widest point in feet

Capsize Screening Formula

This formula attempts to indicate whether a given boat might be too wide and light to readily right itself after being overturned in extreme conditions. Read more.

CSV = Beam ÷ ³√(D / 64)

Shoal draft: 4.5’/1.37m.

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The Freedom 36 is a 36.42ft fractional sloop (free standing) designed by Gary Mull and built in fiberglass by Freedom Yachts since 1985.

The Freedom 36 is a moderate weight sailboat which is a good performer. It is very stable / stiff and has a low righting capability if capsized. It is best suited as a coastal cruiser. The fuel capacity is originally small. There is a short water supply range.

Freedom 36 for sale elsewhere on the web:

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Nonsuch 36 Design Comparison

Posted by Rob Mazza | Boat Reviews , Monohull , Reviews

…and Two More Freestanding-Rigged, Solid Sailers.

L ooking for boats to compare to the Nonsuch 36, the obvious commonality has to be the freestanding rig . That certainly narrowed the choice, and the Freedom 38 (an elongated version of the Freedom 36) and the Hunter Vision 36 nicely fit that bill. Full disclosure: I was working with Mark Ellis while the Nonsuch 36 was in production at Hinterhoeller Yachts, and I was chief designer at Hunter Marine in Alachua, Florida, while the Vision 36 was in production, but both of these designs preceded my tenure.

Looking at these distinctive sail plans, note that the Nonsuch is a true cat rig with the mast located well forward in the “eyes of the ship.” In contrast, the Freedom and the Hunter position their masts far enough aft to allow for a forestay and small headsail; in fact, the mast is far enough aft in an area with enough beam to allow the installation of a stayed rig on these two designs.

All three of these boats take full advantage of the freestanding rig, but the sailplan configuration of the large main and small jib of the Freedom and Vision is not tied to the freestanding rig, while the Nonsuch is. During this same period, other designers were making similar efforts to make sailhandling easier on traditional stayed rigs by moving toward larger mainsails and smaller, non-overlapping jibs, and fractional rigs; the Gilbert 30 is a good example in cruising boats and J/Boats an example in racing designs.

Adding a small headsail means the sail area is split between two sails, so the main is proportionally smaller for these boats than for the Nonsuch. Sixty-five percent of the Freedom’s 572-square-foot total sail area is in the main, while 70 percent of the Vision’s 677 square feet is in its main. All of the Nonsuch’s 742 square feet of sail area is in its large single mainsail. The forestay on the Vision and Freedom also helped restrict the aft movement of the mast, so the boom would not droop into the cockpit and the mast would not pump as much in a seaway.

Note also that the Freedom and Vision employ a conventional main boom with mid-boom sheeting and vang, compared to the Nonsuch’s self-vanging wishbone boom. Other than the freestanding mast, the only departure from a normal sloop rig in the Freedom is the use of the half-wishbone jib boom marketed as the “camberspar.” The Nonsuch and the Vision have more than adequate sail areas resulting in sail area/displacement ratios above 17, while the Freedom lags a bit at a little over 15.

Let’s take a look at the hulls under these rigs. Certainly above the waterline the Nonsuch’s profile reflects its catboat heritage. However, if you were to place your hand over the rigs on the drawings of the Freedom and Vision, these designs would not be much different in profile than stayed boats from the same design offices. This has ramifications when looking at the numbers. Note that the Nonsuch has the longest waterline length at 33 feet 9 inches, approximately 2 feet longer than the Freedom and the Vision. This longer waterline is largely a result of the severely truncated overhangs inherent in the catboat aesthetic. The length overall of the Nonsuch is only 7 percent longer than the waterline length, while it is 24 percent longer for the Freedom and 16 percent longer for the Vision. If the Nonsuch 36 had the same length overall/length waterline ratio as the Freedom at 1.24, it would be just shy of 42 feet long!

This obscuring of true size is also evident in the displacement figures. The Nonsuch is a full 2,600 pounds heavier than the Freedom and 1,600 pounds heavier than the Vision—this, despite the Nonsuch having the lowest displacement/length waterline ratio of the three at a performance-oriented 197, compared to 223 for the Freedom and 232 for the Vision. These differences in waterline length and displacement on a short length overall highlight the marketing challenges that always plagued the Nonsuch models when customers would invariably compare boats of the same overall length. All Nonsuches are substantially larger, and thus more expensive, than their length overall would indicate.

Note that the beams of these three boats are within 3 inches of each other. When comparing these beams to waterline length, we see that the Nonsuch is relatively narrow at .38 and the Freedom and Vision beamier at .41. This would indicate that not only have the ends of the Nonsuch been truncated, but the waterline length has possibly been stretched a tad as well. These similarities in beams, combined with variations in displacement, yield a slightly more favorable capsize number for the heavier Nonsuch at 1.97, and a less desirable 2.06 for the Freedom and 2.05 for the Vision. The comfort ratios also follow the displacement variation, with the heavier boats faring better than the lighter.

These are three large boats that incorporate the advantages, real and perceived, of the freestanding rig. All are attractive, but to my eye it is the earlier Nonsuch that incorporates the freestanding rig into a complete and harmonious package combining innovation with tradition. She is still a remarkably good-looking boat after all these years and inspires pure awe when seen sailing in any sort of breeze.

About The Author

Rob Mazza is a Good Old Boat contributing editor. He set out on his career as a naval architect in the late 1960s when he began working for Cuthbertson & Cassian. He's been familiar with good old boats from the time they were new and had a hand in designing a good many of them.

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• Sailboat Reviews

Production of this Dave Pedrick design started in 1993 and continues today. An optional package for traditional headsails is a departure from Freedom’s self-tending legacy.

With 85 hulls built to date, Freedom Yachts of Middletown, Rhode Island counts the Dave Pedrick-designed 35-footer as a solid success story. Freedom currently builds sailboats in three sizes, at 35, 40, and 45 feet, as well as the Legacy line of powerboats. The sailboat line stakes its identity on three points: sound naval architecture, high-quality construction, and sailing simplicity based on the freestanding rig and self-tacking jib. The line blossomed after the emergence of the sprightly and bulletproof Freedom 30 designed by Gary Mull in 1986. That boat, known to many readers, can serve as a useful benchmark in a discussion of the Freedom 35.

Design Pedrick’s designer’s comments speak of his intention to make the Freedom 35 a fast, easy-to-handle boat with ample cruising accommodations in the cockpit and belowdecks, as well as the ability to perform well at the club-racing level. To those ends he drafted a hull form that’s graceful and powerful, with a slightly aggressive look — a subtle sheer rising to a shallowly raked stem and a reverse-transom, with moderate overhangs at both ends and the beam carried well aft. The underwater hull is modestly round and full at the turn of the bilge and flattens as it runs aft — flat enough to allow the boat to surf in the right conditions. The transom carries a swim-platform scoop that blends well with the hull lines. A swim ladder is attached and can be lowered from the scoop. The helmsman’s seat can be removed to provide flow-through between swim platform and cockpit.

The cockpit itself is a bit small for a 35-footer — 7′ 3″ long by 5′ 9″ wide, with a T-shaped footwell aft to make space for the Edson wheel.There’s a large cockpit locker to starboard and twin lazarettes either side of the helmsman’s seat. The size of the cockpit makes it easier for a shorthanded crew to reach the sail controls, and the sides and coamings provide good support and security; stretching out under the stars, however, probably wouldn’t be worth attempting.

Like other Freedoms, the 35 carries a tall, unstayed carbon fiber mast with a big full-roach main and small standard jib, although the foretriangle on the 35 is relatively larger than that on the 30. The jib is fitted with a CamberSpar, a sort of internal wishbone that stretches the sail from the clew to a point on the lower luff. It articulates from tack to tack, more or less forcefully according to wind strength, thus helping shape the lower part of the jib upwind while allowing it to be winged out effectively downwind.

Unlike the Freedom 30, which was not rigged to carry more than its two basic sails, the Freedom 35 is offered with an optional overlapping headsail package, consisting mainly of a set of running backstays to oppose the headstay on the 3/4 fractional rig, and a set of primary winches in the cockpit for trimming. This set-up allows genoas and spinnakers to be hoisted to the hounds; the tip of the mast remains unsupported. In standard jib mode the runners aren’t needed — in fact, in the stock Freedom sailplan the jib exists more to create a slot upwind than to provide substantial horsepower itself; the headstay remains almost slack, tensioned only by the push of the CamberSpar, and luff tension is maintained by the jib halyard, as on a sailing dinghy.

Aside from initial cost, which is roughly $10,000 more than an equivalent aluminum spar and standing rigging would be on this 35-footer, the unstayed carbon rig has few apparent drawbacks — in fact, some of the cost of the carbon spar is recouped by the fact that the hull requires no chainplates, tierods or related supporting structures. It’s simpler and requires less maintenance than stayed aluminum rigs, and without the downward pull of the stays and shrouds, compression at the mast step is reduced.

Freestanding carbon spars are big and round at the partners and taper as they rise. They do obstruct airflow to the sail, especially down low, but as for windage it may be that without stays, shrouds, and spreaders they play about even with their aluminum counterparts.

In one of the few substantive changes to the F-35 since the introduction of the boat, Freedom a few years ago shifted the sparbuilding contract to Goetz Marine Technologies, known for its expertise in carbon fiber work. GMT produces a “lighter, stiffer” spar, according to Freedom spokeswoman Roe O’Brien, who also says that there have been no reported rig failures on the 35, before or after the change. The spar comes with a transferable 10-year warranty, or a lifetime warranty to the original owner.

It may be that the only shortcoming of the carbon spar these days is psychological: The scarcity of wires can be disconcerting. We all tend to grasp at the shrouds when we’re working at the mast or coming aboard amidships, and when they’re not there, something seems askew with the world.

The boat is offered with two keel options, a deep fin with a Pedrick-designed “whale tail” profile, or a shallower (not to say shoal-draft) wing keel. The whale-tail rudder is a big, high-aspect foil on a carbon fiber stock. Owners report that Freedom’s and Pedrick’s extra efforts in designing responsive steering have paid off: The boat turns quickly and accurately, and provides good feel through the Edson system.

There’s little question that the deep keel provides better lift than the winged version. This translates into acceleration in a puff, less heeling and slippage as boatspeed increases, and often less leeway once the boat is up to speed.

For some owners, the Freedom 35’s draft may be the hardest nut to crack. The deep keel is quite deep at 6′ 6″, and the wing keel, at 4′ 6″, isn’t all that shallow.

Construction Hull construction standards are at the top end of the production scale — skins of biaxial and unidirectional E-glass with vinylester resin, sandwiching an end-grain balsa core. The hull/deck joint is bonded with 3M-5200 and through-bolted on 6″ centers. There’s a transferable 10-year warranty against hull blistering.

Down below, furniture is fastened to the bulkheads, and the bulkheads are glassed directly to the hull. There are solid fiberglass transverse supports under the floorboards. There are five Lewmar hatches on deck, 19-3/4″ square in the forward and main cabins and 10″ square over the head, galley and aft cabin. All ports are 316-grade stainless steel — another indication that these boats are stretching outside the standard production mentality. Stainless ports add significantly to the builder’s initial cost, and certainly bump up a new boat’s price, but without question they save the owners problems and headaches, and of course this ends up saving Freedom time and frustration.

The Yanmar 3GM auxiliary lives under the L-section of the port settee. The shaft exits the transmission and emerges underwater about a foot to port of the keel and at a 5° angle to the centerline.

This engine and shaft placement serves several purposes: First, it creates more room throughout the area of the aft cabin, companionway, and head. Second, it puts the engine’s weight in a better fore-and-aft position without sacrificing much balance athwartships. Third, it makes for very good engine access everywhere but on the engine’s port side, and even that’s not bad. Fourth, it helps concentrate plumbing through-hulls in one zone, under the galley sink. Fifth (and this is the feature touted by Freedom) it’s a built-in correction for “prop walk” when the engine is in reverse — the slight angle of the shaft off centerline helps neutralize the tendency of the left-rotating prop to drag the stern to port.

On deck, sailhandling hardware includes two Harken two-speed winches at the aft end of the cabin trunk, and a Harken traveler. Halyards, reefing lines, main and jib sheets, and traveler controls are led through Lewmar stoppers.

Accommodations Belowdecks the Freedom 35 is laid out to provide good comfort and privacy for two couples, with full cabins fore and aft. Each has standing headroom (6′ 1″) behind closed doors, each is ventilated by two opening ports and a hatch, and all bunks are 6′ 7″ long. There’s room for two more people on the settees in the saloon, and an equipment option that allows the port settee to be converted to a double berth. Underway in standard layout the leeward settee is comfortable, but for sleeping at anchor it makes sense to remove the side cushions for more elbow room.

The saloon has a warm, traditional feel, with varnished cherry cabinets, hull ceilings, and handrails. The cabin sole is teak and holly, while the overhead is covered with a removable vinyl headliner. Headroom throughout the saloon is 6′ 2″.

The cabin table folds up and stows against the bulkhead to port. This opens up lots of valuable space for people to wrestle with bathing suits, foul-weather gear, sleeping bags, duffle bags, grocery bags, and the various other bags that make their way aboard. Stowage for personal gear is good in the fore and aft cabins and adequate in the saloon, where the absence of chainplates or tie-rodes is a help.

The head compartment is to starboard of the companionway steps. This is always a smart arrangement on a single-head boat: It keeps saloon traffic to a minimum and makes use of a wide part of the hull for more space; in this case the compartment includes a separate shower stall with teak grate and a proper wet locker. Stowage for toiletries in the head is adequate; more importantly, with the shower stall isolated there’s less chance for everyone’s stuff to get soaked when someone takes a sloppy shower.

The L-shaped galley, according to Freedom Yachts, incorporates many features suggested by Freedom owners. There are two deep stainless steel sinks on the counter section athwartships, and a gimballed Force 10 stove/oven to port. The ice chest incorporates a nice touch — a separate section and door for drinks and quick snacks, which allows the main part of the chest (8.5 cubic feet) to stay closed most of the time.

Two PS survey respondents bemoaned the lack of counter space in the galley. This space was surely sacrificed to the enclosed standing room and hanging locker in the aft cabin. On a boat this size, some things have to give, and in this case the working areas below — galley and nav station — gave it up to the head and the private cabins.

There are no standard foot pumps for fresh or salt water in either the galley or the head. With today’s reliance on pressure water systems this omission is commonplace among boatbuilders. Admittedly, it adds expense and labor on the builder’s side, and there may not even be that much demand from buyers — but it’s poor practice, in our view, especially noticeable when batteries or water supplies are low.

Performance Soon after it was introduced we were able to sail the company boat, Hull # 1, in conditions that ranged from about 18 knots to nothing. That boat, rigged with a 120% Mylar genoa, was clearly a fast and nimble performer, particularly in light air and downwind. It’s chief failings were the lack of a dedicated mainsheet winch, and a traveler system that was too small for the loads imposed by the big sail in heavy air. Both of those problems were addressed early in the production run of the boat.

Part of the Freedom 35’s agility comes from the big, light whale-tail rudder; other contributing factors are the balance of the sailplan, the self-tacking jib, and the extra roach on the mainsail, which acts as an airbrake in jibes. With this combination the boat can be spun around upwind or down in a small radius with sails trimmed and locked. It may not be pretty, but it can be done.

As the wind increases, the unsupported tip of the carbon fiber spar will tend to sag to leeward, automatically depowering the sail, but also creating more and more weather helm. The F-35 mainsail needs to be reefed sooner than later — there’s plenty of power left in the roachy main, the boat stands up straighter, the rudder is relieved, and everything speeds up. The boat is “simple to reef with minimal or zero loss of speed,” says one owner. “Very little weather helm in gale warning winds.”

The sail area/displacement ratio of 19.8 on the standard rig is respectable, but there’s an inevitable lack of headsail power upwind in many conditions, no matter how big the main and how closely sheeted the jib. No doubt this is one reason Pedrick increased the size of the foretriangle — not only to increase racing options, but to make life happier for cruising sailors willing to do some cranking in order to punch their way upwind. (Of course, at that point the Freedom’s sailplan loses a substantial measure of its freedom.)

Most F-35s today are sold with the overlapping jib package, says Freedom’s Roe O’Brien, but few are raced actively. (The standard boat carries an average PHRF rating of 114.)

Conclusions Whether or not people race these boats, Dave Pedrick and Freedom certainly have succeeded in their design aims: The Freedom 35 is a comfortable performance cruiser, well built, easily handled, seaworthy, and attractive looking.

With a real voice in design issues from the outset, and the ability to work with the company on semi-customization of new boats, veteran owners are a loyal bunch. “In general, people who buy Freedoms become big devotees,” says O’Brien.

While a new Freedom 35 costs $188,200, second-hand boats cannot be had for a song. The BUC Used Boat Price Guide lists the high and low of the average price for a 1993 model Freedom 35 as $107,000 to $118,000. For a used 1999 model there’s quite a jump: $183,000 to $201,000. These figures reflect actual sale prices of boats, reported by brokers back to the BUC network. A look around for current asking prices showed exactly one boat available, in Stamford, Connecticut, for $149,000. (Not for long, we think.)

Contact- Freedom Yachts, Inc., 305 Oliphant Lane, Middletown, RI 02842 800-999-2909.

Also With This Article Click here to view Owner Comments .

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Freedom 33 - Is it really an ocean crosser?

Discussion in ' Sailboats ' started by Ryan Beck , Jan 25, 2006 .

Ryan Beck New Member

Hello, My wife and I in the market for a 33'-37' sail boat that we can do some extensive cruising with, including crossing large pieces of ocean (e.g. Halifax to Bermuda and onwards). We really like the design of the Freedom 33 built by TPI, but overall we are unsure such a boat's capability to take to the open ocean. Any thoughts, opinions, known passages made by F33s are welcomed. Ryan Beck Montréal, Canada PS we are also interested in shallow draft aluminum built boats (e.g. OVNI 34). I'll post a separate thread on soliciting thoughts on that type of boat as well.  

Eric Sponberg Senior Member

Hi Ryan, I was Chief Engineer at TPI when we converted the Freedom 33 from a centerboarder to a keel boat. The centerboard took up too much interior room, and the overall weight was too high, and that is why we took the centerboard out and added the keel. The keel version is a much more seakindly boat than the centerboard version, so look for one of those. The other thing to look at is the masts. The older carbon fiber masts experienced a lot of sufferficial cracking which, most of the time, goes only into the first layer of the outer fiberglass windings. These can be repaired, but you have to strip the masts of all their hardware and relaminate fiberglass cloth and epoxy around the mast to get rid of the cracks and restore the surface. Then refair and repaint. I personally know of one Freedom 33 in Newport, RI, named Folly, that has done the Newport-Bermuda One-Two a couple of times. She's a good boat. I know of some others, only anecdotally, that have crossed the Atlantic. They were popular in England. Good luck in your search. Eric  

Hello Eric, Thanks for the prompt reply - and given your previous position with TPI, I would say that you are a great person to provide opinions on this matter. The F33 that we are looking at is an '83 so it has the keel version. Interesting that you mention the surface cracks in the mast. A previous buyer that was interested in this F33 walked because they were concerned about these cracks. The story given by the broker, via TPI (or possibly the mast manufactuer) was that these cracks were cause by the fairing compound being more rigid than the mast itself and thereby cracking ensued. Does this sound like a possible explaination? Again concerning the masts and cracking, is there a method by which one (including an expert) can determine if the cracking is surface level only or otherwise? Last question - should the cracks be determined to be surface level only - is any corrective action required, such as what you propose above, or is this only a visual concern and not structural? I lied, one more question (!) between the F33 and the F36 (e.g '87 onwards), which in your opinion is better for long distance cruising for two people. Much appreciated. Ryan, Montréal, QC  

In 1983, TPI was the mast manufacturer. The actual cause of the mast cracking is the glass fiber windings on the outside layer. When the masts were built, the last wrap of material was the band of twelve glass strands 1.25" wide that were wrapped onto the mast with a quarter inch overlap. There were no longitudinal strands in this layup. Note that the very first layer of material was an identical wrapping of glass, although we don't see too much cracking inside the mast--stresses are lower, and the environmental exposure is nil. After the final wrapping, the mast was cured under cal-rod heaters, and then coated with a thick gelcoat. The masts then went through a sanding machine that did 3 grits of sanding in a single pass, and then they went to paint. As the masts aged in the environment and as they flexed, cracks will appear in the microscopic spaces between the glass fiber strands, opening up circumferential cracks. Shrinkage of the gelcoat over time aggravated the problem. Usually, the cracks go down only through the glass layer and do not penetrated the carbon fiber unidirectional underneath. However, this is not guaranteed. Left too long, the carbon can crack as well, and this becomes a very serious problem. The way to determine the depth and extent of the cracks is to peel back one of them and see if only the glass strands pull up. Probe deeper with a knife blade to see if there is a crack in the carbon. Hopefully, there is not. Yes, corrective action is essential, for the reasons stated above. There is a long-term structural concern. I recommend taking off all the hardware, grinding off the entire outer layer of glass and gelcoat, rewinding a strip of fiberglass cloth, which has glass in two directions, all around the mast, using epoxy resin. Two layers will be better than one layer. Repaint the mast, and reattach the hardware. If I had my drothers, I would definitely go for the Freedom 36--a much better boat. Eric  

b.amateur Junior Member

Bringing this back up because I've seen an ad for a Freedom 35 built in 1985 by Western Approaches, UK. Can anybody tell me: -Were these built from (balsa) sandwich or only GRP? -Is the quality comparable to the TPI - built ones? -Have the masts been built by TPI or elsewhere? -If cracks would extend into the carbon fibre, would that mean the whole masts would have to be replaced? That would be quite a project, I guess, and very expensive, I guess they would have to be custom made...or are there some original masts still lying around somewhere...? and more general: -How is the performance of the F35? I've read you shouldn't expect too much when going to windward, but can somebody give concrete examples? How about the seaworthyness? I have no experience whatsoever with that kind of rig...I do like the idea behind it and the whole layout of the boat - but it feels a bit strange to think of going to sea with this heavy thing standing right at the bow...  

Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

Here a review for the Freedom 35: http://www.boats.com/news-reviews/article/perry-design-review--freedom-35 Cheers.  

Muchas Gracias, Guillermo, but I´m looking for the 1980s cat ketch designed by Gary Hoyt. I´ve found an old review by Yachtworld...had to buy it, and it´s being sent to me by snail mail...see what that says...  

b.amateur said: ↑ Bringing this back up because I've seen an ad for a Freedom 35 built in 1985 by Western Approaches, UK. Can anybody tell me: -Were these built from (balsa) sandwich or only GRP? -Is the quality comparable to the TPI - built ones? -Have the masts been built by TPI or elsewhere? -If cracks would extend into the carbon fibre, would that mean the whole masts would have to be replaced? That would be quite a project, I guess, and very expensive, I guess they would have to be custom made...or are there some original masts still lying around somewhere...? and more general: -How is the performance of the F35? I've read you shouldn't expect too much when going to windward, but can somebody give concrete examples? How about the seaworthyness? I have no experience whatsoever with that kind of rig...I do like the idea behind it and the whole layout of the boat - but it feels a bit strange to think of going to sea with this heavy thing standing right at the bow... Click to expand...

Thanks a lot, Eric! (I had hoped you would reply, but didn't want to bother you directly) Can you give me a rough estimate how much a renewal of both masts would cost? I don't have the slightest idea, not even if its less than 10.000$ (OK, I guess not) or more than 30.000$ (I hope not, that would be getting close to the price of the boat...), no clue. And there are no price lists for carbon masts on the internet... a bloody amateur  

I don't have any recent direct quotes, but I would expect a replacement mast to be around US$15,000, give or take a couple of thousand. A general rule of thumb is roughly US$100 a pound. Weigh the mast and use that figure, and that will get you into the ball park. A new mast will likely be lighter than the original masts simply because of better technology that is available these days. Eric  

chandler Senior Member

Hi Eric, What do you think the life expectancy of carbon fiber masts is? Specifically the ones on freedom 33s. Does anyone know anything about the Offshore 33 cat ketch or the Halsey Herreshoff 33' cat ketch?  

Crag Cay Senior Member

The Freedom was well regarded in the UK as John Oakley did much to cement their reputation. However there are always a couple of other things (apart from being self standing cat ketches) that count against them here in our conservative market: The companionway is offset to starboard, they have a reputation for shedding their masthead aerials and lights and the nav station is forward. In total, these idiosyncrasies keep many people from considering them as options and hence they are probably undervalued. Incidentally, the ex-John Oakley Freedom 35 did drop a mast last summer, but (IIRC) the replacment mast here in the UK was nowhere near as much as 15K US.  

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That's good info, Crag, thanks. Well-kept masts should last the life of the boat. There was plenty of safety factor designed into the rigs. I joined TPI in 1980, just at the time they were converting from aluminum masts to carbon fiber masts. So the oldest masts now are approaching 30 years old. To date, I am not aware of any aging or fatiguing failures. The Offshore 33s were designed by Yves Tanton, and I think he was even a partner in their construction. They had their own filament winding machine to make the masts. I am not aware of any offshore 33 rigs coming down, and the few O33s I have seen seem to sell pretty quickly. As for the Herreshoff 33s, I designed those masts. The Herreshoff cat ketches were built by Cat Ketch Yachts in Honduras (home office in Miami) and later in Port Arthur, TX. They also built the Sparhawk cat ketches designed by my friend Richard Black (I put he and Cat Ketch Yachts together). The Herreshoff cat ketches came in sizes 27' (later 28'), 31' (later 33'), 38' and 45'. Cat Ketch Yachts built their own masts on a mandrel and to a process that I laid out for them. The Herreshoff masts were all built using both S-glass (off-axis fiber) and carbon fiber (unidirectional parallel to axis). The sections were slightly oval, not round. The Herreshoffs all had half-wishbone booms which work extremely well. I have two sets of friends who each own H-31s which I get to sail on from time to time. The Sparhawk cat ketches were built at 36' and 42'. They are more modern designs than the traditional-looking Herreshoffs. They have conventional booms. Their masts were built on the same oval mandrel, but are all-carbon construction. I hope that helps. If you have any more questions regarding specific boats, you may contact me privately. Eric  

Freedom 40 cat-ketch good/bad?

Freedom 39 Pilothouse Cat Schooner Sailing Capability

Seaworthiness of Freedom 39 Cat-Schooner

Really small stayed rig - what kind of sail?

sailboat that planes really easily while heeled?

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Nonsuch 36 vs Freedom 35

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Two boats, similarly equipped, similar condition, sharing the common theme of un-stayed masts, the Freedom 35 with a swim platform/easy access transom - any experience with both to form an opinion on which direction to go if considering purchase? Coastal motoring/sailing, with the potential for a FL bound ICW in several years. Thanks in advance.  

I can't tell you anything about the Freedom but I have surveyed a number of Nonsuch's and found them to be fairly consistent with their issues. They have balsa cored bottoms and many suffer from seriously wet cores although I have seen a few that were absolutely sound. They came with aluminum waste tanks which rotted out fairly quickly so perhaps this has been addressed. The propane systems are bizarre, dangerous and meet no known standards. The electrical systems were atrocious and again met no known standards. A new mast will cost you $100k and I'd say 3 out of ten I have looked at had serious issues. I have posted a sample survey report which I consider typical of this marque. You may find it useful as a guide when inspecting the vessel.  

Great reply, great resource in the surveys, thank you.  

As I recall, the Nonesuch has an aluminum mast and the Freedom is carbon fiber. A number of years ago, a colleague suffered a dismasting in her Freedom. Sometime prior to the dismasting, the boat had suffered a lightning strike and the owner thought all had been restored to proper condition. The postmortem blamed the lighting strike for weakening the (conductive) carbon fiber structure of the mast. So, if you are entertaining a Freedom, you might inquire about lighting in the boat's history. I don't know how a surveyor would assess the integrity of the carbon fiber mast--maybe someone else can offer a qualified opinion. Regarding the Nonesuch, my recollection is that the masts were basically light standards that seemed rugged enough. I was somewhat surprised by the surveyor's experience with multiple Nonesuch mast issues. Great to have such information show up in SN.  

Try posting your question on Freedomyachts.org. I don't know anything about Freedom 35s, but I love my F38. Very solidly built. She has some issues for a 28-year-old boat that had never been upgraded, and except for the wonky co-mingling of AC and DC in the same panel, these don't have anything to do with original build quality.  

Both are of similar quality construction(cored hull, high quality fiberglass). If the Freedom is likely much less than the Nonsuch, but likely has a more usable sail plan, though more complicated. Is this the Pedrick designed cat/sloop or the Hoyt designed cat ketch? Assuming the Pedrick that looks like a really sweet boat. The Nonsuch is kind of a weird bag, quality is high, but the rig is love it or hate it, and some of the systems are very odd. The water heater is awful and is even marked on the unit that it is not for marine use and if I bought one would be the first thing I removed. The interior lay out is really nice for They are cool though with only one sail to deal with. As long as you are planning on near shore it is a great rig.  

Goofy story about a Freedom 39 Pilothouse cat-schooner: Two decades ago a friend married his trophy wife in NYS, he bought a Freedom 39 Pilothouse cat-schooner in FL, and they sailed it home on an extended honeymoon; the lovely new wife had never sailed before. Two years later my wife and I happened upon them and their Freedom cat-schooner at a secluded anchorage in a mid-Atlantic state. Over drinks they recounted that had twice been struck by lightning during their trip north. Aghast I asked the delightful Mrs. X whether she was shaken by this. To which she responded, "You know, I had never sailed before and after one mast was struck I wasn't surprised when the other mast was struck. I just thought it must be a regular part of sailing."  

Sounds like he did better than winning a trophy, more like the lottery. Most would have been like, I am out of here after the first strike. If budget constrained I suppose you could build your own Carbon fiber mast as a replacement. Just need a form to wind it over. I always thought it might be fun to try to make a carbon fiber mast for a cheap sailing dingy. I think some of the Freedom's masts were fiberglass early one weren't they? I looked at an Offshore Cat ketch and it had aluminum masts and they look like they are overly strong.  

Similar price, similar condition. I've looked at both aluminum and carbon masted Nonsuch boats, and both can have faults. Here's a link to this F35. Because I don't have enough posts here on this forum yet, it won't allow me to post a link to the F35, but happy to share with anyone vs pm if they want to see. Thanks everyone for feedback thus far, and agree with on-demand water heater etc. My experience is with better name brands in power, Bertram, Island Gypsy, BHM (Flye Point), older Boston Whalers, and looking for something relatively easy to single handle and have some size for comfort when needed. Thanks again.  

I don't think there is as much "quality" difference between different sailboats as there is to power boats. Well Bayliner did make sailboats for a while. But for the most part the biggest difference is going to be in the level of hand crafted interiors, but hulls are all fairly similar. Other higher quality brands to look at would be: Saber Canadian Sailcraft (some times listed as CS) C&C Tartan Alerion Aldan Pacfic Sea Craft Gozzard Lots of others. I don't think the single sail really is that much of an advantage for a single handler, sure there is less to keep track of, but it is really big and heavy, so you may well be reliant on electric winches. A split rig (with more than one sail) gives more flexibility to deal with differing conditions. Alerion makes some excellent sort of traditional looking boats with fairly modern underpinnings and are kind of set up for single handed day-sailing. though they tend to have smaller cabins but if you are by your self and perhaps a couple of others they are fine. Tartan and C&C (was owned by the same company for a while) make excellent boats, though there was an issue with a few hulls, but I am sure they are all straightened out by now. They have beautifully trimmed out interiors. Saber makes some really beautiful boats, but now are concentrating on power, but lots of good ones out there. Canidian Sailcraft makes a very well made boat with a more easy to maintain interior. Really depends on what you want to do and how much you want to spend. Do you plan on long blue-water passages, just coastal sailing or perhaps island hopping? You might be better served by getting a nice production boat like a Catalina 34 that you can turn around quickly after learning sailing and determine what you want to do, or you may find it suits your needs.  

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FREEDOM 36 Detailed Review

If you are a boat enthusiast looking to get more information on specs, built, make, etc. of different boats, then here is a complete review of FREEDOM 36. Built by Freedom Yachts and designed by Gary Mull, the boat was first built in 1985. It has a hull type of Fin w/spade rudder and LOA is 11.1. Its sail area/displacement ratio 18.61. Its auxiliary power tank, manufactured by Yanmar, runs on Diesel.

FREEDOM 36 has retained its value as a result of superior building, a solid reputation, and a devoted owner base. Read on to find out more about FREEDOM 36 and decide if it is a fit for your boating needs.

Boat Information

Boat specifications, sail boat calculation, rig and sail specs, auxillary power tank, accomodations, contributions, who designed the freedom 36.

FREEDOM 36 was designed by Gary Mull.

Who builds FREEDOM 36?

FREEDOM 36 is built by Freedom Yachts.

When was FREEDOM 36 first built?

FREEDOM 36 was first built in 1985.

How long is FREEDOM 36?

FREEDOM 36 is 9.34 m in length.

What is mast height on FREEDOM 36?

FREEDOM 36 has a mast height of 13.87 m.

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